Do you think playing Halo helped at all?

I dunno....I think having a steady aim and knowing where my bullets were going helped. That definitely wasn't my first target sheet, but it was the same day. I got to fire a Glock .45 as well....so amazing! Also, 12 gauges kick pretty hard.

I think I may be a better shot IRL than Halo.

Trigger, staying in the 10-ring at 25-feet with iron sights is indeed a good place to start. If you haven't already, google the basics of marksmanship and ensure you're doing three things:
1. Focus on front sight; let rear sight and target blur.
2. Controlled breathing; squeezing trigger with breath held.
3. Slow and steady trigger squeeze; the gun's discharge should be a surprise.

Depending on ammo choice I bet you'll be able to stay in the X-ring next time.

After that you may want to look into shooting positions, use of a sling, and ammo choice, depending on how interested/ambitious you may be.

What make/model rifle do you have?

When I was in boy scouts, they always taught me that you should not hold your breath, in that you shouldn't inhale and hold it. They said you should exhale normally and just hold that. They said you were less likely to shake this way.

They also emphasized, as Midnight has said, squeezing the trigger, not pulling it. You should not expect the discharge.

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"Don't blow this, Gene!"

Thanks for the tips guys, I'll definitely listen to them. Especially Midnight. Pretty stupid to not listen to a Marine.

In any case, it's a .22 bolt-action rifle with 10 round clip by Savage Arms, and my ammo is .22 hollow point Winchester rounds.

Midnight have you ever read the book "The Art of the Rifle" by Jeff Cooper? I had it recommended to me but if its not good I obviously wouldn't want to read it.

Also, the scope is a 4x32 rifle scope(I think the brand is BSA)

Slayer is right. I mis-typed. The overall concept related to this is that you want the rifle supported by things that don't move: a tree, sandbag, shooting bench, or in the case of your own body (no structure available)...bones. You don't want the rifle supported by muscles and air (air in your lungs). Muscle tires and inflated lungs are...well...not nearly as solid as bone.

I've never read Mr. Cooper's book, but I know he's a renowned author on the subject.

You also should memorize the 4 cardinal rules of firearm safety if you haven't already. Happy shooting.

Thanks for the info, guys.

Let's say I wanted to buy a rifle with more range and stopping power for hunting, NOT a shotgun. What would I buy?

30-06 or a Remington .270

I would say either of the two hubcrap said or a 30-30. Ive always used a 30-30 for hunting and never had a problem, but I will be purchasing a bolt action 30-06 before next hunting season.

Any particular brands that are better than most?

Whoa guys...what if he's hunting coyotes? 30-06 might be a little much. He hasn't said. Trigger, what type of game are you after? Is versatility important or do you only want to hunt a particular animal?

To the credit of JDogg and Hub, it's commonly said that .22LR, 30-06, and .375 H&H Magnum can humanely take any game living on planet earth. 30-06 is an incredibly well documented cartridge and it can take almost anything in North America...almost.

I would personally not recommend 30-30 Winchester. While it has probably taken more deer in the US than any other cartridge, it's not a very versatile round. It's rather slow, so it exhibits a lot of drop over 150 yards or so. It's also usually a chambering for lever action rifles which generally aren't as accurate as bolt action rifles at the upper edge of performance. It works, but if you're purchasing a rifle there are much better options for the same or only marginally more money.

For new rifles I would suggest the Savage 110 series with Accu-trigger. It's the best bang for the buck--period. Accu-trigger is superb, and its accuracy rivals that of the Remington 700, the industry standard. If I were purchasing a new rifle for hunting deer I would look at a Savage 110 in .308.

Versatility is important, but so is power...if I'm after a deer I want to drop it in one shot. The .22 would be just for small game...I'm also looking at 12-gauge shotguns as well...ideally when I am done on my gun purchasing spree I'd own a .22(got it), a 12 gauge shotgun, either a 30-06 or a .308 bolt action rifle, and a Glock .45(Missouri has a conceal and carry program I will be taking after I turn 23).

Then I'd actually have to learn how to hunt. My family has never been anti-gun but never had gun traditions, so its more or less me finding things out through friends and anyone I can listen to who knows what they are talking about. Also in reference to an earlier post Midnight made I do exercise a lot of safety when it comes to my gun. I keep a lock on it all times and keep it clean. I mean there's more to gun safety than that obviously but, just sayin.

The Savage 110 series in .308 looks pretty good, pricewise too(looking at a few online sites, though I'd probably buy from a local store). The only complaint I read about it so far online was somebody who doesn't like Savage triggers.

I have never personally used the Savage accu-trigger, but when it was released a few years ago I read nothing but extreme critical acclaim for it in gun magazines.

Power is important in humanely taking game, but most people tend to go overboard. 30-06 is not necessary to humanely take a whitetail deer. It certainly gets the job done, and there's no harm in using 30-06 for deer, but any number of less powerful .30 caliber rounds and most .24x-.28x rounds will do the trick with less recoil and less expense to shoot. Remember, the more it costs to shoot (in price of ammo and pain to your shoulder) the less you will practice with it, the poorer a shot you'll be with it, the less you'll have a feel for its bullet drop and accuracy, and the more likely you are to miss when it counts.

Thanks for the advice Midnight, and for all you guys answering my "newbie" questions. I'm curious, I'm looking to buy a glock(for personal protection and Missouri's Conceal & Carry program) and I've been told a 9mm Glock is the way to go... and a .45 would be a bit much. Also, any particular brands people prefer for a 12 gauge shotty?

I think if you want to commit yourself to something, you should just go all out and do things right. Get a Desert Eagle.

That almost seems like...overkill? mb?

Check out this cabinet I'm thinking of getting when I have more to actually put in there... http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/sm-stack-on-16-gun-convertible-double-door-gun-cabinet--pi-981410.html

The 9mm vs .45 ACP question is to the gun world what console vs PC is to the gaming world: no clear answer but sure to bring strong opinions from both sides.

Desert Eagles are really cool in COD4, but in real life they're said to be pieces of shit. It's difficult to make an autoloading handgun feed a rimmed cartridge like .44 Mag reliably, and they are notorious for jamming. That's DE's specialty: putting powerful revolver cartridges into autoloading pistols. It's a novel concept, but not good for much more than an expensive toy (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not a good idea to use one for concealed carry or home defense).

Trigger, I have a smaller cabinet that is similar to that. It works well.

Ok so I went back to the gun range...it wasn't pretty with a scope. I don't know if I put it on wrong or something but it was not good. I didn't actually get into the X ring at 50 feet until I took the scope off....and the scope kept falling off. I dunno what to do...I put it on there nice and tight and after around 10 shots it just falls off no matter how tight I had the scope on there :( I'm also wondering if its just the way a .22 is...because I continually had to aim not straight on with the rifle scope...usually up and to the right.

Any tips for adjusting a rifle scope? Also I can't seem to find the Savage 110 Series in .308....usually everyone around here carries a 30-06 and swears by it...I almost loled when a guy at a gun shop said usually Marines love the .308...I'll be honest pricewise the 30-06 looked more appealing...I may get the 30-06 first and maybe get a .308 later...

Any suggested brands for 12 gauge shotguns?

I'm really excited about all this IRL gun stuff :)

I apologize if this is an insulting question, but did you zero your scope? You can't expect it to hit the target if you don't adjust the crosshairs onto the target.

It also sounds like you're having a problem with mounting your scope. The scope base (if one is used) and rings are extremely important in holding a zero. Take extreme care in making sure the metal surfaces mate correctly. Use blue locktite on all the screws. Cinch them down tight, but don't strip the threads. Then go zero your scope. Start at 25 feet or so and get onto the target. Use the click adjustments for elevation and windage until you get a 5-shot group that is centered on the bull. You can calc how many clicks per inch you need at a certain range, but with inexpensive scopes the stated figures never hold true, so just go with trial and error. One piece of advice on zeroing: be bold in your scope adjustments. If you try to "sneak up" on the bull you'll be zeroing all day. Move the scope a bunch of clicks when you first start out (be bold with adjustments). If your group moves from 3 inches right of the bull to 2 inches left, then you know about how many clicks to go back right. This is called bracketing. It's a better way to zero than "sneaking up on it."

Go with whatever caliber rifle suits you. .308 is one of the most popular calibers in the world, not just among Marines, so if it's not prevalent in your area then it's just your local area. .308 Winchester is arguably the most documented and widely loaded precision rifle caliber in the world. It is essentially a shortened 30-06 round. It was standardized as 7.62 Nato and used in military weapons by over 100 countries from the 70s until present. Surplus ammo is available for $.12 per round. However, if 30-06 suits your price and availability, then go for it. It's also a fine cartridge. It's the cartridge .308 was derived from, IIRC. You'll just pay more to shoot it, get more recoil from it, and unless you hunt Elk or larger you won't notice a difference in its ability to take game.

The biggest name in shotguns is the Remington 870. Its main competitor is the Mossberg 500. I've owned both and I like them both. I like the parts availability and customization opportunities of the 870. I like the safety location on the M500 better. The M500 is about 10% cheaper. It is also more difficult to thoroughly clean. Handle both and see which one suits you. They are both excellent scatterguns. I would suggest a retired police shotgun with a beat-up wooden stock. I bought one for $130 several years ago and turned it into a great bird gun (swapped the 21" barrel with cylinder choke for a 27" barrel with modified choke), and gave it a homemade Krylon camo-paint job.

I would suggest starting with a pump because they are so much cheaper than autos. After that you can explore autos if you like shotgunning. For autos I like the Browning Gold series, but they are pricey. You won't find a softer recoiling 12 GA. Remington 1100 is the most inexpensive way to get into a high quality auto, IMO.

I would have the crosshairs on the target, yes. At 50 feet, though, the bullet spread was lower and to the left of what I was aiming at. I'll try those scope tips, thanks Midnight.

Also I may go with the .308 but that was just the opinion of one of the gun shops around here...I'm still looking and asking around to get the best deal. Also when you say blue locktite do you mean this- http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=153? That's what Google came up with. Thanks for explaining what the clicks mean...I didn't know.

I'll look for one of those shotguns...thanks again. I feel like such a nublet, lol.

It sounds like you didn't realize you must zero your scope. You can't just put it on the rifle and start nailing the bull.

The link doesn't work for me. However, go to any auto parts store or Wal-Mart in the hardware section and ask for "blue loctite." It's like asking for duct tape. They'll know what you need. Blue loctite helps keep screws from backing out, but you can still remove the screws if you need to. Red loctite is semi-permanent.

I would google for some directions on zeroing a rifle scope. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Also, .308 isn't the end-all caliber out there. There's a multitude of great calibers. I just like calibers that are cheap to shoot, so I can shoot them more often at the range (9mm, 5.56mm, 7.62mm).

Yeah...didn't really realize that. I'll do that next time at the range. Thanks again for the tips.

Also just got a sweet rifle sling for my .22 :) No problems putting that on, thankfully. I think my next gun purchase will be either the 30-06 or the .308...some idiot at my gun range tried telling me the .308 didn't exist in the Savage 110 series...I'm glad I have a lot of places around here to ask around.

I also went up to the Army surplus store and got one of those green metal ammo crates for 10 bucks to keep my ammo under lock and key...I love army surplus stores.

THX Gun Advice FTW!

He may be right about the 110 in .308. I just assumed. I am sure Savage makes a .308 in some model. I think they have a good website.

No you're right. It exists, it's just the guys at the gun range are interested in screwing your wallet as much as possible. >: [

Oh, your "gun range" is also a "gun shop?" I see. Gun shop workers are to be treated like politicians. 90% are full of shit and will lie to pad their pocketbooks. There are 10% out there that are both knowledgeable and trustworthy, but you'll have to search to find them.

Yeah I've been noticing that....most of them around here are not too trustworthy. Sometimes it feels like dealing with a car dealer...

Since you have the power of knowing how to use the internet for research, I would encourage you to never consider a purchase from a gun shop until you know exactly what make and model of firearm you wish to buy. Don't try to gather info at the shop and make a decision there.

Also, arguing with them is almost futile. They will twist and distort what they said, and sometimes become belligerent. When they tell you something blatantly wrong, just let it slide off your back. Smile and nod. If you decide to educate them I wish you the best of luck.

Of course, that's a sweeping generalization of gun shop workers, but that doesn't mean it isn't generally accurate.

I just thought I'd say that this thread is a fun read. Hopefully it keeps going.

As far as 12 gauges go, I've got my eye on a Mossberg 590. The loading mechanism.. (I'm gonna need Midnight's help on naming the part. "Loading Breach?") is convenient. The Remington 870s have a flap there that you push down when loading a shell if I'm not mistaken. I haven't done much hunting, but for shooting clays, I'd probably end up with a modified 500.

Doesn't it have a thumb safety as well. Which I'm a fan of.

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Oc, I'm unsure what that piece is called, but I know the part you mean. Mossbergs have a safety located on the "tang" of the gun, which is operated by the thumb of the strong hand. I vastly prefer it to the 870 safety located on the trigger guard. My primary home defense gun is an 870 HD, and I don't like the idea of having to fumble with a fine motor skill (disengaging the trigger guard safety) in the event of a crisis. Of course I have other options, but none that mesh well with leaving the gun out when guests come over. I don't want a non-gun savvy guest to be able to pick up my shotgun and immediately discharge it, even if it would be total lunacy for someone to do that. Not keeping a round chambered also brings a fine motor skill into a crisis situation through the loading process. I suppose that's why I have a pistol as my backup home defense weapon, and a few more weapons further back on standby in case of zombie hordes.

@zombies LOL... True, I read somewhere about the 7-8 shot 12 gauges that you really don't need that much in reserve for a home defense solution. If 1 or 2 shells doesn't cut it, then they'd probably be safer with a hockey stick or something anyway because they might not be ready to handle something like a gun. And if you need all 8 shots, your dealing with a full blown invasion, not a break-in. I sortof agreed, except for the fact that your probably a better shooter if you've got more confidence.. and confidence comes when you've covered every base. That includes gun jams, which can and do happen.

I'm not fully comfortable yet with handling pistols since I have limited practice with them. Therefore I don't touch them unless I'm in a controlled situation like target shooting or something like that. I'm a long way from making one part of my home defense solution as I feel I'd be less safe than just not having one at all. I'd encourage others to do the same with what they aren't comfortable with. Add that to the fact that the imagined situation might happen at 3 am in the morning and I don't want to have to deal with fiddling with small things like a pistol. A 12 gauge is big, intimidating, and if somehow miraculously runs out of ammo, it probably makes for a fine inanimate object to swing around in self defense.

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It'll keep going Oc...I'll even post pix when I bag my first deer, ha. I really enjoy this stuff...and plus I'm really anxious to get these guns before it becomes illegal...maybe its just the paranoia talking but I really fear for our 2nd amendment rights plus I've always wanted to learn how to use guns...hunting, cleaning them and all that. Win-win.

I never make a decision at the gun shop, Midnight. Don't plan on it, either. I've always used the internet for research, guns are no different. Just got to be careful as to what information you trust, as with any internet source. I'm just glad I can come here and ask people like Midnight who know what they are talking about and aren't full of crap. lol @ zombies.

I'm looking at the Mossberg and Remington shotguns...they look really good. Main difference I am noticing right now is the Mossberg 590 is shorter...

Check that video out...did I see an AK-47??? Isn't that illegal??

When you have a weapon in hand and are being fired upon there is an overwhelming sense of urgency to put rounds downrange, no matter how well aimed. The one situation when I took sustained fire on my position proved this to me. I could not positively ID the shooter but felt an overwhelming need to fire at the rooftops of buildings in front of me, since that was the most likely position for the enemy that I could see. It would have been wrong by our ROE, so I fought it and didn't return fire, but tried to maneuver for a view of the shooter. I'm glad I fought it because I was wrong, and I would have put rounds into a civilian's house. The machinegun fire was coming from a car on the road, not the houses behind the road.

To cut to the chase, I disagree that having plenty of ammo is a bad thing. If I'm rattled I'm likely to miss, possibly miss repeatedly, and I'm a fairly decent marksman.

Trigger, there are many semi-auto versions of the AK-47 that are 100% legal. AKs aren't my cup of tea (I like to hit what I aim at) but they're a blast to shoot, and they don't require much cleaning.

Is the SKS one of these semi-auto versions of the AK-47? I'm wondering cause I shot one once and it looked very similar... to me anyway.
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"Don't blow this, Gene!"

Can't argue with that. I'd rather have too much ammo than too little. One has more severe consequences.

Re: being fired upon. I can imagine wanting to empty half of a clip just to try and scare them off with the sound.. I guess you wouldn't have been able to pinpoint their location then.

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Slaya! are you talking about Mr. Spaghetti's!?

][-][ //-\\ ][_ {()} ][

The SKS (Simonov) rifle was the predecessor to the Kalashnikov (AK) rifle. An SKS uses a 10-round fixed box magazine. The AK-47 uses a detachable 30-round magazine. SKSs are great values these days. They were even better values before the import ban.

Oc, it's a little strange to be taught the principle of suppressive fire as a basis of small unit combat and then get ROE that all but prevent it. In traditional wartime scenarios as soon as you know you're taking incoming fire, some rounds are going the other way as well. Of course, you don't waste ammo on what you can't see, but achieving immediate fire superiority is important in repelling an assault, especially in the mind of your enemy.

During WWII the US made special instructional videos to help prepare service members for the German MG42. The mental effect of a machinegun with no single discernible blasts (just a long string of sound, like a motor) was apparently devastating.

Is this the "Loctite" you speak of, Midnight?

LOL!!! Yes, that one.
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"Don't blow this, Gene!"

I think you got the backwards package, Trigger. Now how are you ever going to read the instructions??

LOL, Mintz. I blame my iSight camera

Your camera has the power to make industrial liquid-substance packaging reverse its entire design? What power you have! Remember, use it only for good, not for evil.

Yeah, but seriously, is that the right thing?

Umm...not sure. The blue Loctite I know is all blue and is about the size of a tube of super glue. The "filler and sealer" part has me worried. Here's what you need:

Just occurred to me that I may be using the word "Loctite" like "Coke" or "Kleenex." The stuff pictured may or may not actually be Loctite brand, but what you want is threadlocker (blue, not red).

Hmm, ok. I haven't used it or opened it yet, so I'll just exchange it.

EDIT: Got the right stuff, though the brand "Loctite" does make the right stuff, the loctite I grabbed was NOT.

You don't have to use a lot. On the average scope ring screw you'll only need 1 drop.