There's truth to way Gravel was saying. At least there appears to be:

Leonidas was a famous lumberjack: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_militaries_of_ancient_Greece

I like a lot of things about Gravel. But he'd be a terrible president. He's failed big time at a lot of things. Just recently, he had to declare bankruptcy. He's only raised like $300K in money. Several other democrats have raised tens of millions of dollars.

He failed to raise money. He failed to get face time on the YouTube debates. No money + no face time = no votes.

But evidentially, he's a big fan of 300, though. So, he is establishing a fan base with the HD-DVD market.

I have no doubt that there was homosexuality in Sparta... and Athens, and Persia for that matter. I think you could probably make the argument that there was homosexuality in many civilization's of that time. Furthermore, I would bet that Sparta... and Athens couldn't have touched Rome in this area. I don't think that it means that it plays a part in the success of a military. That is ridiculous, IMO.

I love the way he references "war movies" as his example. :)

What really bugs me is how, I believe, the difference between homosexuality and comradeship is growing increasingly hazy in our culture. I think his statement is just another proof of this. It seems like these days you can't have a "love" for your friends without being a lumberjack.

It reminds me of watching the Lord of the Rings movies. Whenever Sam and Frodo showed any kind of affection, I would hear people laugh and make stupid jokes about it. I have also seen those TBS commercials for the movies, and they make the same kind of jokes. But its not like that. Especially if you read the books you know this. It is a brotherly love, an affection and care for the well being close friends.

Personally, I don't see that trend.

What a complete jackass.

He's obviously making shit up on the spot because the interviewer is a fruitcake. The lisp is quite evident.

Have you seen Clerks 2? Randall's slamming of LOTR is HILARIOUS. Those jokes are intended to be just that-- jokes. You shouldn't take it so seriously. You may even have a laugh at them... ;)

The maturity to realize that just because people poke fun at things, doesn't truly detract from the movie itself, nor the message(s) contained therein, will allow you to relax and have more fun.

I'm not saying it isn't funny. I laughed at it. Heck, Hubcap will tell you, he and I spent the entire three hours of watching The Fellowship of the Ring making jokes about "Gandolf the Gay" and Frodo. It I was a long time ago, and very immature, but it was funny... very funny. Our jokes stemmed mainly from the line... "Don't tempt me Frodo!"... lol, good stuff.

Yeah, I've really cried myself to sleep at night over this. I can never look at LotR the same again. Come on. I was just giving another example. It's not like I don't think its funny, or I can't laugh at stuff. Good grief.

But I think there is a bigger picture here. I just think that in our sex crazed society, people, especially young people, increasingly can't seem to to make the distinction between really close friends and homos. Everyone has their mind in the gutter.

This is where JayWhy should insert his comment about the ridiculousness of your discourse in this topic, followed by my comment agreeing wholeheartedly.

Ridiculous commentary usually does stem from ridiculous topics.

So were the jokes you and Hubcap made just not "stupid," or are jokes about Gandolf and Frodo fair game while Sam and Frodo are off limits? I'm trying to understand why it bothers you in your first post but you admit to having a good time with it in a later post.

Including you, apparently. It's funny how you take the high road until you're criticized for being too up-tight, then you're Mr. Easygoing, bothered by nothing.

lol, your right, I didn't realize how inconsistent that was. I obviously didn't write my first comment with very much thought. I should not have used that example in the first place. But my point is not about people making jokes... that was a horribly bad example. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH JOKES ...just to clarify.

My point was that Mike Gravel makes a comment soldiers are fighting for the man next to them and therefore are lumberjackish or vice versa. My point is that there is a difference between close friendship and lumberjackness, and Mike Gravel, and IMO a lot of other people, can't seem to make that distinction. A soldier can care about the person next to him and not be lumberjackish. I think Mike Gravel is trying to remove that distinction, and make the argument that people in the military fight better if they are lumberjackish and care about each other.

If I were in the military, I would take offense to his idea. As if soldiers don't fight for a cause, they only fight for each other cause they are lumberjackish. That is so stupid. I mean, of course they bond and care for each other, but that doesn't make them lumberjackish.

The joke thing was a bad example, and really has no bearing on my argument. But I was simply trying to clarify that I am not some "up-tight" person, although granted it does sound that way in that post, who never laughs at anything and never kids around. I am one of the most easy going people alive, and I put up with all sorts of crap. But I still laugh about it. That is what I was trying to clarify there.

Obviously, I wrote two completely inconsistent, and contradictory statements. But I was simple trying to clarify my stance. Sorry.

I know, I screwed up. I came off a little ticked off, because I thought I was being unfairly labeled as an anal stick in the mud. But i didn't realize, or consider, just how anal I sounded in my first reply. Not to mention the fact that I used a horrible example that ended up taking the topic in a completely different direction. It's my fault. I was careless and stupid. My bad.

You're right. It has bearing on your credibility.

If he said military service members who "fight for the guy next to them" are homosexual, then I think he's joking. It's not a very good joke, but I don't think for a second he intends to be taken seriously.

...either that or it's a government conspiracy to destroy American ideals.

I wonder what will happen the day you meet a man employed as a "lumberjack." That'll be awkward.

Well, actually, I was for jokes before I was against them.

Call me sheltered, but what exactly is meant by the word "lumberjack" that couldn't be said with the hundreds of other slang terms for homosexuals? Is there a special designation? Does it mean a homosexual male, who is still masculine (a contradiction in terms, if you ask me)? Is a lumberjackish dude a g@y man who is in the position of comradery? In this context, that seems to be the case, but the word's connotation seems to have come out of nowhere. Apparently, I'm not up on my slang...

Nevermind. I see in my post above that the word "g@y" (replace the @ with "a"), is filtered. Lumberjackish is the substitute.

I wonder what other words are filtered, and what they are filtered with. Here goes...

[edit] the filter doesn't work so good. the only other bad word that gets replaced is f*ck = hump [/edit]

Well... a long time a go in a galaxy far, far, away....

THX had to deal with an influx of younger brothers who only knew one derogatory term...

G A Y

dude that’s G a y... you're g a y ... how g a y ... I'm not g a y, you're g a y, no you are g a y. etc...etc...etc.

What G A Y ness is this?

After months (years) of repetition, the older members of THX got tired of all the G A Y ness. Repetitive rebukes didn't work. Individual counseling didn't work.

One thing worked.

As a tribute to Monte Python, I used the here-to-fore unused profanity filter to replace the word g a y with the word "lumberjack". It was my tribute to Monte Python. This was a couple of websites a go. The filter followed us.

So anyways, there you go. I peronally don't give a F*ck what you have to call me as long as you can be a little more creative about it... you hamster munching son of a pretzel lover. We generally police posts on an individual basis. If you want to add other words to the asshole filter, feel free to make suggestions. You're as much a part of this as any of us.

- Brick

Brick speaks the truth, and pretty eloquently, I might add. Look at it as our effort to teach the new skool some new adjectives.

It's g a y, I know, but that is how it is. :) You can thank Shyzza and I for this, BTW... *cough* but mostly Shyzza.([/end blame shift])

I've started just writing lumberjack in the first place at times.

I love you slayer.

<3
DJ