Building a Home Theater PC / DVR

The main question here is, do you care about the audio. If you do, you'll get a standalone audio card. Onboard audio is fine if you don't care about it. If you don't care about getting power spikes causing static, squeals and pops, oh yeah, and crappy surround, sure, go with onboard audio :). Now, if you're like me, and demand perfection from your equipment, you'll need at the very least a good solid sound card. A good start is here http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010360057+50001137&name=Creative+Labs For good sound, expect to pay decent prices. The $90.99 one will probably fit the bill. Media center should work fine, it's not the greatest, but it's definitely not the worst. Be prepared to only see about 2.6GB of RAM, no matter what you do. A 32 bit OS can only officially use 3GB of RAM, and it'll hide some of it. If you see 2.7GB, you're doing good :).

As for the tuners, might as well go with the one you can hook directly into your cable box. The Hauppage, while amazing, can be a hassle for newbies, even for old computer farts like myself. For something like this, easiest is best to start, even if it does cost a little more.

Bigger hard drive, you don't think you'll need it now, but 6 months down the road when you've capped all South Park, Simpsons, Heroes, Lost, House, and all the sports games you want to remember, you'll be like CRAP NEED MORE ZPACE!. More is better when it comes to space, you can never have enough gigabytez. :)

Vista...meh...nuff said.

DJ

I am going to see how the mobo's S/PDIF acts and if it misbehaves then I'll get a sound card. All I need to do is pass a digital bitsream to my receiver via a digital connection. Can all the interference you mentioned really manifest itself in a digital connection? I don't want analog audio outputs or DD/DTS decoding from my HTPC. My receiver will handle that.

I've been told the "hidden RAM" is the shared video memory. I've read that when I install a dedicated video card it will give back the 256MB of shared video memory.

I will expand my hard drive as I go. I'm building this device on a budget and want to get a basic setup running before I decide where to spend extra money. In the areas of audio, hard drive space, and software I could easily spend more, but I'm going to wait to see what I actually like/dislike before investing more money in features.

Thanks for the input.

It's very possible, I don't remember exactly how the digital audio with onboard sound runs, but I do believe it goes through the same audio processor that the analog signal does. Won't hurt anything to test it out first though.

Whoever told you that is a liar. That or they had no idea what they were talking about. All 32-bit operating systems have a physical threshold of 3GB of RAM. If you had less, say 2GB, then yes, you'd see a 256MB increase from putting a dedicated video card in. Once you hit that 3GB limit, Windows itself does funky things with your ram, and you won't get 100% of your total. Once you move to a 64-bit OS, that'll all change, but until then, you're only gonna get to play with a mere 2.6GBish...darn.

True, but I mean come on, how cool would it be to be able to say, "Ya, MY HTPC has 5TB of space."

DJ

Thanks for the insight. I'll do some further research and see what happens when I install my 2 GB of RAM and MSI GeForce 8500GT when they arrive early next week.

Finally unpacked and setup the PC today. Uninstalling the crapware was relatively easy, and there really wasn't that much of it. Got it fully patched, setup media center to work with my 360, and removed the modem. Now I have a 2 PCI, 1 PCIe1x, and 1PCIe16x slots available. Also found the S/PDIF out on the mobo. I think I might be able to fashion a wiring harness and use the slot cover from the modem to get my digital audio out.

BTW, DJ, I read that the mobo's S/PDIF output is purely a passthrough. I read that it's a digital data stream (PCM or DD/DTS) and that it really doesn't undergo any processing. Anyway, I'll find out for sure in a couple weeks.

The stock 250 GB hard drive is partitioned into two 111 GB partitions. Isn't this a connundrum. I'm told I can't just reinstall Vista and repartition like I can in XP. Apparently I have to use the Acer recovery feature, and the recovery/OS data is stored on the first partition. Some people put in an XP installation CD and go through the repartitioning process, but then quit and reinstall Vista. There's some problem with your Vista install being linked to the mobo, and you only getting one shot with your product key on the side. Any insight into this?

My main goal is to say "My HTPC does all this _______, and it only cost _____ to build!"

Re: partitions

You could use software to merge the two partitions. Partition Magic is the best known sw for this. http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/overview.jsp?pcid=sp&pvid=pm80

I bet there's some freeware out there that can do it.

FYI, you can upload .xls files to Google Documents.

K, hopefully it doesn't get any interference from the power on the mobo.

The fact that it's partitioned doesn't really make a huge difference. You're not going to be installing anything else on this computer, so once you get all the necessary software installed, you'll be golden. Should leave you a little over 200GB of free space after everything is said and done. You can set up media center to record to wherever you want. Just make a folder and be like "put my shiz here" and it'll be like "ok dawg."

DJ

Just found that Vista has a great built-in partitioning tool.

Right click computer, manage, disk management

You see all your partitions and can easily shrink/expand/delete them.

Why can't partitioning in XP be that easy?

I don't now about Vista, but I load 32 bit server 2003 standard on machines all the time with 4GB of RAM and they support all of it just fine. The enterprise version supports 8GB just fine. That leads me to believe that the memory limitation is not due to the OS being 32 bit.

diskmgmt.msc, son.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605

The problem:

If a computer has 4 gigabytes (GB) of random-access memory (RAM) installed, the system memory that is reported in the System Information dialog box in Windows Vista is less than you expect. For example, the System Information dialog box may report 3,120 megabytes (MB) of system memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed (4,096 MB).

The cause:

This behavior is the expected result of certain hardware and software factors.

Various devices in a typical computer require memory-mapped access. This is known as memory-mapped I/O (MMIO). For the MMIO space to be available to 32-bit operating systems, the MMIO space must reside within the first 4 GB of address space.

For example, if you have a video card that has 256 MB of onboard memory, that memory must be mapped within the first 4 GB of address space. If 4 GB of system memory is already installed, part of that address space must be reserved by the graphics memory mapping. Graphics memory mapping overwrites a part of the system memory. These conditions reduce the total amount of system memory that is available to the operating system.

The reduction in available system memory depends on the devices that are installed in the computer. However, to avoid potential driver compatibility issues, the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista limit the total available memory to 3.12 GB.

If a computer has many installed devices, the available memory may be reduced to 3 GB or less. However, the maximum memory available in 32-bit versions of Windows Vista is typically 3.12 GB.

The workaround:

For Windows Vista to use all 4 GB of memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed, the computer must meet the following requirements:
• The chipset must support at least 8 GB of address space. Chipsets that have this capability include the following:
• Intel 975X
• Intel P965
• Intel 955X on Socket 775
• Chipsets that support AMD processors that use socket F, socket 940, socket 939, or socket AM2. These chipsets include any AMD socket and CPU combination in which the memory controller resides in the CPU.
• The CPU must support the x64 instruction set. The AMD64 CPU and the Intel EM64T CPU support this instruction set.
• The BIOS must support the memory remapping feature. The memory remapping feature allows for the segment of system memory that was previously overwritten by the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) configuration space to be remapped above the 4 GB address line. This feature must be enabled in the BIOS configuration utility on the computer. View your computer product documentation for instructions that explain how to enable this feature. Many consumer-oriented computers may not support the memory remapping feature. No standard terminology is used in documentation or in BIOS configuration utilities for this feature. Therefore, you may have to read the descriptions of the various BIOS configuration settings that are available to determine whether any of the settings enable the memory remapping feature.
• An x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used.
Contact the computer vendor to determine whether your computer meets these requirements.

I like how they feed you all the hardware requirements, then toss that little "An x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used" at the end. They said a lot, but didn't actually tell you how to get a full 4GB of RAM on a 32-bit OS.

I really can't explain why Win2k3 sees all 4GB. After a bit of research, it appears that they did some recoding of the OS memory stuff itself to be able to take advantage of up to 4GB of RAM. Just dug a little ways through the Micro$oft site for Win2k3. It's a much better OS than Vista, by far, but Vista users gotta have their prettiness :).

DJ

Finished my homemade S/PDIF connector and bracket last night. It works beautifully. I put in a DVD and connected my receiver to the digital coax connection I made and confirmed the receiver was receiving a Dolby Digital signal. Score! Will post pics of it later tonight.

Finished ordering my parts. Already received the RAM and installed it without hiccup. Decided to go with a fresh install of Vista to get the OS/software partition shrunk to a more reasonable size (20 GB). Now I've got a 20 GB partition for the OS and software, a little over 200 GB partition for media, and a 10 GB FAT32 partition holding the Acer restore program that I've tried everything to kill, but it keeps coming back for more.

Video card should get here today or tomorrow, and with any luck the tuner may get here by Saturday. I recently discovered a cool piece of freeware from Nvidia called Ntune that I may be able to use for overclocking my stock mobo, as if that's even necessary, but I might squeeze a conservative extra 200 MHz just for the hell of it.

Here's the complete build:

Acer T180UD400A Circuit City $199.92
2 GB RAM Techonweb.com $37.50
GeForce 8500GT Zipzoomfly $58.59
S/PDIF Bracket Homemade $1.00
HDHomerun Snapstream $166.59
Firefly Remote Snapstream $0.00
Beyond TV 4.6.1 Snapstream $29.40
DVI to HDMI Monoprice $5.28

Total $498.28

Will also probably purchase a cheap gigabit switch to facilitate the transfer of the video stream from the HD Homerun to the Vista PC. Will update with pics and progress after more parts arrive and I get it totally put together.

I'm about half way home with this HTPC setup. I'm now watching TV on my 22" monitor and on my 30" CRT HDTV through my Xbox 360. I received all of my remaining equipment yesterday and began assembling this evening. Here's how it went down.

First I installed the video card. It went OK, with only one hiccup and one "geez, why didn't I do that to begin with" moment. The hiccup was that upon install and powering up the PC Vista automatically detected it, disabled my onboard VGA, and enabled the video card. This isn't a big deal, except it defaulted to the DVI out on the video card. Unfortunately, it wouldn't output a DVI signal over the DVI out, and I had to use the included DVI--VGA adapter (I guess that's why it was included). It took about 10 minutes of cabling adventure to figure that one out.

After getting a display on my monitor I installed the drivers from MSI and some MSI update software. Turns out even the update software was out of date as MSI now uses live update via a browser instead of a separate utility. Then I uninstalled the update software and tried to use live update. It didn't work well so I went to nvidia and got the latest Vista drivers from them. That worked like a charm. I had thought of doing this from the beginning but said to myself, "No, just follow the directions and use the included software." Now I've got the latest drivers, Nvidia's Ntune application, and things are running well. BTW, DVI is much sharper than VGA.

Next I installed and configured the HD Homerun network tuner. This took a bit of work, as I expected. The short story is that there are detailed directions on the Silicon Dust forums (makers of HD Homerun) for the HD Homerun working with almost every popular DVR app from Windows Media Center to Myth TV, but they're detailed for a reason. The HD Homerun is unique in its ability to tune QAM channels and still work with WMC and DVR applications. Setting up the channels is different for every single cable provider across the nation, and sometimes different for each user depending on signal strength. Being in a new house in a new subdivision I had really high signal strength.

The tuner identifies channels that it sees but it has no idea as to the name of the channel, and therefore the guide data for it. The exception to the rule is the 5 local stations which it automatically identifies. You have to manually tune to each channel, see what channel it is (sometimes referencing an online TV guide for assistance) and enter the channel's info into a part of the HD Homerun's configuration. It's a PITA, but it does have an upside: it discovers every possible unencrypted QAM channel. I pay for the cheapest cable subscription available: $12.95 per month. However, most cable providers broadcast at a minimum the 5 locals via QAM, and sometimes more.

I've got several channels that I don't actually pay for. I've never seen FEARnet before, but I've got two separate iterations of it. I've also got the Fine Living Channel, a sports network that seems to exclusively air Pride fighting, and among a few others, MTV Tres. That's the hispanic MTV.

Additionally, it appears that when the neighbors buy on demand movies I see them as well. However, there looks to be a channel for each available movie, and the channel is only on when someone has purchased it. That means I might normally have to flip through 15 blank channels before finding an on-demand movie, if anyone is watching one at all. Some users report seeing pay per view events as well.

At this point I've got all the applicable channels programmed into the HD Homerun and WMC. However, I haven't got the WMC guide to understand what provider I want it to grab guide data from, so it's clueless about everything except the channel name, which I told it manually. However, I can watch live digital and HD television on my computer monitor and pause/record/rewind/fast forward/etc using WMC.

TV also works through my Xbox 360 as a media center extender. All I do is hit the Media Center icon on the remote and it launches the interface. Just like on the desktop, I can pause/rewind/record/etc. It works seamlessly. I am pretty impressed that it works so well from the 360 given the fact that my tuner is a network device (not installed in the desktop). The way I understand it the tuner is demodulating the channels, streaming that info to the desktop, which then streams it through the media center interface to the 360. Lots of network traffic there, but no discernable A/V stutter.

Next step is to configure Beyond TV (software). This will make my living room (HTPC) interface pretty slick. I won't get this interface on the 360, but I will still be able to use the 360 through the WMC extender. This means I need to configure guides for both setups. All of that happens tomorrow (rather, later today).

I just learned about the "free PPV when someone else near me orders it" trick the other day from someone that lives near us. Fortunately for him, his neighbors are PPV freaks ordering anything and everything very often.

Oh, there's a trick to it? I assumed he just accidentally found that out.

No tricks involved. The cable company sends you the signal unencrypted. If you have the equipment to receive it then good for you.

Finally got around to uploading pics.

This is the inside of the case with everything installed. Yeah, it's pretty barren. Because my HD Homerun tuner is a network device (plugs into my router and serves the channels via my wired network) all I have done is remove the modem, add a homemade SPDIF bracket for a digital coax output, add some memory, and install the video card.

This is the SPDIF bracket I made. Was actually pretty easy, but soldering such fine contacts as the one of the connector I found at Mock Electronics was a challenge. However, it turned out to be one of the better precision soldering jobs I've done.

What the bracket looks like from the outside when connected to my receiver

Confirming my receiver is getting a dolby digital signal from the DVD I am playing in the DVD R/W drive. Picture is rather blurry, but the rectangular red light on the receiver comes on when it gets a DD 5.1 signal.

Scanning and adding channels with the HD Homerun software. The way the HDHR works is as follows:
1. Hook it up and install drivers/software
2. Scan for channels and see what your cable company is broadcasting via QAM. Regular analog NTSC channels are not viewable with the HDHR.
3. The HDHR gives you a list of every frequency and channel where it found channel information. You must manually go through each channel, view it, identify it, and then assign its name. For some channels it's easy (ESPN). For others it can be difficult, but referencing an online TV guide at zap2it helps tremendously.

The fruits of my labor. After configuring Windows Media Center and its guide this is what you get. Digital and high definition channels, pause/rewind/fast forward live TV, and a fully programmable guide. All with a basic cable subscription ($12.95/month) and the right equipment ($500). After the initial setup costs there are no subscription fees, and I have total flexibility. I can add more storage space when I want. I can easily dump TV episodes to DVD. I can even watch on-demand movies for free...as long as the neighbors are (and I see them fast forward/rewind/etc).

Cool write up. Keep it coming.

Where's the pic of the video card and how are you getting video out? For now, I'm guessing you are just playing back on a PC monitor.

When you extend WMC to another room, do you notice lag between entering a command with the remote control and WMC acting? Any video lag over your network? Have you tried with a wireless network?

Windows Media Center offers so much more than other DVRs - mainly because other DVRs aren't COM.PU.TERS. WMC will allow you to do some really cool stuff.

You can display caller ID, play games, get RSS feeds, stream video and audio from the internet, access your audio library with album art, etc.

One thing I like about WMC is the ability to "research" while in WMC. Say I'm watching a movie. Through the WMC guide I can get a list of the actors in the movie. I can then click on that actor's name and look at other stuff that actor is in and when (if) that show is coming online. You'll even get the "cover art" for the movies that they are in. You can do it for directors, producers, etc. It's kind of like having IMDB on your TV.

That's pretty leetastic.

I noticed a couple of the features you speak of, but have only scratched the surface so far. While I was playing with WMC I saw the menu item "movies." I selected it and it gave me a list of movies currently playing on my channel lineup (it knows the difference between movies and regular programs). It displayed the movies like the cover of a DVD, with "movie art" (I'm thinking album art...) and everything.

No noticeable lag with the media center remote that came with my premium. Sometimes the first 3 seconds of video on a channel can act strange, but it quickly settles down. After the first 3 seconds or so I don't notice any issues at all.

I'm very impressed with WMC versus Beyond TV. Beyond TV's guide is a little nicer, and the DVD burning plugin is user friendly, but it has a nasty lag when switching channels. Furthermore, there is approximately a 10 second delay when starting live TV for the first time. Sounds long, huh? It was about 45 seconds until I found a forum topic that suggested adjusting the "header timeout" from 15 to 3 in Beyond TV. That helped, but it is still borderline unaccpetable for non free/beta software.

Video out is DVI from the video card to my 22" monitor running 1680x1050 @ 60 Hz. Today I move it into the living room and will connect it to my 67" Samsung 1080p DLP via a DVI/HDMI adapter. Will then set the resolution to 1920x1080 @ 60Hz and see how it looks.

Forgot to address wireless. Haven't tried it yet, but I am going to. After I get my HTPC into the living room I will put the HD Homerun software and VLC player on my normal office desktop that uses a wireless G PCI card. I will report how it acts. It sits about 10 feet from the access point through an interior wall and connects with "very good" or "excellent" signal quality. If it can be done via wireless G then I should be able to pull it off.

Installing the video card did indeed "give back" my shared video memory. Vista shows a full 3 GB now, with an overall performance index of 4.8.

That was a really good write-up, Jeff! Very in-depth and informative. I'm considering a similar solution, but more of an add-on to my current PC.

OTA is my only current option (no cable or Satellite can reach me currently, as my area is not serviced by a cable company yet, and I have huge trees blocking my South line-of-sight). I will probably opt for the Hauppauge HVR 1600. If you don't mind me asking, where did you find the best price for that? I thought you mentioned $60 somewhere above, but I may be mistaken...

As of a week or two ago Circuit City had one of the best deals going with $60 after mail in rebate ($99 at purchase). Their rebates are reliable if you complete them correctly. I think PC Superstore is one of the better online Hauppauge retailers with regards to price. Of course, check newegg as well.

OTA is not a bad option. I only went QAM because I already have a basic cable subscription (to make my internet $15/month cheaper I have to buy a $13/month cable subscription, go figure). I would recommend a channel master antenna mounted in your attic. Run coax from the antenna through the wall to the PC. The antennas are on Monte Sano, generally speaking. Aren't you fairly close? Use the below website to check your channel availability, type of antenna needed, and proximity to the broadcast antennas.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

BTW, OTA HD for WAAY 31 is a all but a no-go. They broadcast at some ridiculous power like 30kW compared to hundreds of kW for the other stations.

I use OTA for HD and I get WAAY 31 in HD with no problem from a $50 directional set top antenna from Radio Shack.

Glad to hear you're having success. Most do not

http://www.hdtvpub.com/reception/viewOTAReports.cfm/zipcode_35801/dma_691/

Unfortunately, I am unable to get WHDF (The CW) via QAM, but it is available via OTA.

Was just thinking yesterday...with my 360 in the living room and its capability as a Media Center Extender, there is essentially no reason to have the HTPC in the living room. I could put it in my game room and deliver HD channels to my 32" CRT HDTV, or just stick it in a closet and let it act as a server. Navigating the 360's WMC extender interface is just as easy as Media Center itself, and that way I'd never have to change inputs on the TV or receiver. Gaming, DVDs, HD-DVDs, and live TV would all be output through the 360.

Man, this thing is versatile!

That's why I was asking if you are going to keep the HTPC in your living room and was asking about the lag between the extender and the PC. I didn't really understand why you were keeping it in there. Putting the PC in another room and using the extender will be good because it will be less hardware in your LR and there will be less noise since the PC with its fans and hdds aren't there.

What's good about the extenders is that the HTPC will essentially function as a server - with all kinds of devices connecting to it and its source media.

Later in the year, you'll be able to buy stand-alone extenders which will cost less than the 360's. Still, it would probably be better for a gamer to buy a 360 instead of a stand-alone extender.

Your comment is what got me thinking about it, and now I understand (or at least I think I do).

I also wondered if there are stand alone extenders. However, if they're on the order for $200-$300 then a 360 is a better buy.