Try doing this experiment as an English person and you will get very different results. The other night i said to MY TEAM "i got the sniper" and then all my team mates said for the next 10 mins was "tea and crumpets" and "bloody bastard" and things about the Queen. Really quite sad.

I'm curious as to the results of this test in BTB. And time of day would also be a factor here. I've logged a lot of time playing Halo-2, and it varies widely. Sometimes nothing for 2 whole days of play. Other times it's every other game. But you are correct. Don't let the fools ruin your fun. I use my mute option a heckuva lot now that I tried the Halo-3 Beta version. It just made me realise that it makes it such a much more enjoyable experience. Sure it takes a teensy bit more effort in Halo-2, but the reward far outways the few seconds of not playing. And if the idiot happens to be on the other team with his blaring stereo, you can use it to your advantage with your surround sound to locate him as he tries to creep into your base.

Rumble Pit generally has less assholes than the other playlists. Try this again in Team Slayer or Team Hardcore. Works better if you're close to a 20 rank.

Yeah, I've got to chime in on this one. It really IS that bad. Certainly not everyone is a jerk, and it certainly doesn't happen in every game, but it does happen quite frequently. I constantly hear these things when anyone who isn't explicitly a white American male is heard (as Wolf Bain said). Women, minorities, foreigners... they set off all the alarms in the brains of XBL a-holes. It's pathetic, really.

Anyway, all that to say, your results are not necessarily typical. Nonetheless, there are good people online and it's still worth it.

So, does the fact that Mintz came in first directly effect the results of the "test", or is that just a little information perk. :)

But seriously, three games in succession is hardly enough to debunk such a well known and generally agreed upon stereotype. I played last night and ran across a couple of loud mouth little brats making stupid comments that didn't really have anything to do with the game, but were annoying none the less.

Secondly, Halo 2 is what, three years old? Not sure about that, but it really doesn't matter. The point is Halo 2 is pretty old. A lot of the little kids have probably moved on to other games... like GOW and now Shadowrun for example. The young, stupid, annoying middle and high schooler is not something that is specific to Halo 2. They are playing other games too. It's just that Halo 2, for some reason, appeals (or appealed) to kids in a way that other games haven't. Halo 2 attracted a lot of kids, more so than other games have in the past. I don't know why, but I think most people would agree that this is true. I would hypothesize that it is because Halo 2 was so well marketed and publicized, but I don't know for sure.

Thirdly, this Halo 2 stereotype is not so well known for nothing. There is a reason so many people associate annoying kids, or even adults, and Halo 2.

I don't think that every single game of Halo 2 has an annoying brat in it. But I do think, and this is mostly from experience, that there are, or were, a lot of them playing the game.

I don't expect to generalize every game of Halo 2 based on these three, I was just out to prove that no, you won't be faced with annoying little munchkins every time you play some matchmaking.

Great idea for a test, Mintz. I think your point is valid that it only takes one or two games to ruin the night for you. However, statistically you only showed that the chances of getting an asshole are less than 33%. Your fourth game could have been infested with assholes making the stat a whopping 25%. Definitely need more runs to substantiate your claim.

I was deeply involved in the Shadowrun beta and so I didn't play H2 for quite a while. Then the beta was nearing an end and Bungie released new H2 maps. So, I got back into H2 for a short time.

In my first match of H2 in several months, I was called many derogatory names. It was almost abusive. This went on for several games WITH DIFFERENT PLAYERS. Going from a clean beta test community to H2 was disgusting due to the trash talking. It really opened my eyes to the things I put up with for so long when I was deep into H2.

Of all of the online XBL shooters, H2 is the worse game when it comes to trash talking. As a matter of fact, the more money MLG hands out in FPS tournament, the more vulgar the experience is.

You should run more tests...

Not enough data points...

Yeah, that is a good idea.

You had time to do what?

...kidding...

^ You have no idea how freaking busy he is.

Hell, try being black!! Try H2 Challenge, since that opened up. Hell, just join a party with me, Morpheus414.

Maeby everyone hates me, Maeby these people are having a bad day, but almost every game this month(of June) and May, too, I've had to mute somebody in the pre-game lobby, because they talk trash, or have a masked voice, or play music. And I spend a good 35 seconds cursing and kicking myself if I don't do it in time before Bungie "configures the game".

But yeah, Xbox Live is a hellhole.

It appears there is a trend that the experience worsens if you are not a white American.

It's really discouraging that this is the case. I enjoy talking with people from other countries on XBL (when they can speak English, of course) because I rarely get to do so otherwise. It's interesting to hear British slang from time to time.

Part of the reason I enjoy playing late at night/Early in the morning is to play with europeans, its always interseting to hear another culture but even then sometimes i get derogatory anti-american comments but only rarely, granted its been quite some time since ive been on

Mintz,

Hey man, I wrote that article over at newspail.com and I appreciate the "expiramenting feedback" and while I do agree with your idea that it's not the majority of players that ruin the experience, so much as it is only a few per game or every couple of games; I have to say that they're mostly found in Team Slayer, Team Hardcore, Big Team and so on. Especially in the ranked playlists, and 3 matches does seems like a fairly small experience to judge this one. I've been lucky enough to have strings of 5-10 matchmaking games in any playlist without the trouble of dealing with some douche, it doesn't happen often enough, but it does happen.

But you are generalizing. You basically said that you got through three games and got bored with the idea that there are idiots on live. I don't agree with all of Fuzz's article, but I do agree that I thought live-enabled Halo was going to be the best thing to ever happen before Halo 2 came out. I realize now that isn't the case... In my opinion it isn't "Halo"'s fault, it's jamming hundreds of thousands of 10 year-olds on a playground and saying GO!

Alrighty. I do agree that Halo has attracted many screaming little punks (and immature adults). I do agree that not everyone is a jerk. And I appreciate MINTZ's experiment. If you all don't like how he did it, then go do it yerself. :P

I think I know where all the jerks went. Gears.

I played several games, I'm not sure what types or maps, because I'd never played online before. First game was alright, just the occasional "friendly" comment. The second game, however... I have never been so harrassed in my life. Being female extended the guy's arsenal. I won't repeat anything, but even his team was telling him to shut up. While I was the brunt of it, it was extended to my entire team. The games after that weren't as brutal, but they were still not fun.

So, I guess my point is, all the jerks moved on to Gears, and not all those jerks are kids. Some adults need to learn to grow up.

Fuzz is right, I don't think anyone is arguing that it is an impossibility to find civil matches in Halo 2. Heck, I've played strings of games that have had very intelligent, sportsmanlike people in them. What most everyone is saying is that it is rare to have that experience.

He's got a point. I think this agrees with my theory of marketing being the cause. Bungie and Microsoft want to make money, there is nothing wrong with that, but sadly, they are going to make more money marketing towards kids instead of their original Halo 1 fan base. There are just more of the "H2 Generation", if you will, than there are of the original "Halo 1 college (and high school) student" hardcore fans. Therefore, they marketed Halo 2 towards that crowd. Halo 3 is going to probably be the same way. But hey, thats just a theory, I could be way off.

Yeah, I think a lot of them did go to Gears.

OMG it's dolbex...

Take your experiment to THC or BTB and you will get vastly different results. Also, you did it at what, 11:30 in the morning? The time when most kids are either still sleeping or watching tv and not getting up on the game yet. Try this again sometime after 7PM and you'll get different results. Halo 2's matchmaking idea is ahead of its time, but it's still a gigantic cesspool of retardism. I actually haven't played any H2 since the start of the H3 beta, and I think I might be happier not playing it :).

DJ

I know idiots exist. I know a lot of them play on Xbox Live. However, I also know that there are plenty of sportsman-like people to find, and that's all I was trying to prove with my (small) test.

I didn't mean to make it seem like I was generalizing, but everyone who does generalize that H2 Matchmaking is full of jackasses would be just as wrong.

Hey Fuzz, thanks for stopping by!

I'm sure it varies between playlists, and it's really sad that it's a rare event to get 5-10 "good" games in a row. But like I said, it's those games that you have to focus on. Cling to the good, discard the rest.

The thing is with these types of people is that they usually don't stay on a single game. I think it's mainly because these are the people who buy every single yearly Madden update, no matter how good or bad it is. So their attention span is close to nill. Since they're used to ditching their old games for new ones at the drop of a hat (a.k.a when another game becomes more popular), they can migrate fairly predictably. Since Halo 2, the assholes have gone through GRAW, Rainbow Six, GOW, and are just starting to get into Shadowrun (but I think most will hate it, since it's very hard to try to be an asshole without losing and/or getting kicked out of every single game). As soon as the next Madden comes out, they'll be on that until Halo 3.
Now, I'm not saying that all Madden players are assholes, and not all twelve year-olds are assholes either, but a lot are. I like Madden every once in a while, and 12 year-olds are sometimes bearable, but the mini Hitlers piss the hell out of me.
That said, Mintz is semi right. There aren't as many asses on Halo 2 as they're used to be, and even less tweens. It's because most of them have 360s now and are pissing me off on the 360 games that I like. The best way to avoid the Hitler Youth is to play before the game hits it big, or after a newer, more popular game comes out.

That will be impossible for Halo 3, so thank Bungie for easier to use mute control.

Not so much. Because those who generalize about H2 being filled with jerks would be right. In general Halo 2 does have, or had, a lot of jerks. It is not tru taht in general Halo 2 has lots of sportsmanlike people. They are there, but they are harder to find... or were anyway.

Like I said, this H2 stereotype didn't come from nowhere. There is a reason so many people relate H2 and idiots.

I'm not sure how the terms right/wrong apply to generalizations, but I assert that my generalization that H2 is full of jackasses is much more valid than your generalization. I can't get to Bungie.net right now to check, but I'm willing to bet my generalization is formed from over 1000 games of Halo 2 played at different times of day/week/year and in different playlists.

You can't disprove a widely held opinion with three back to back games. In order to conduct an unbiased test you may have to take the chance of playing until you don't come in 1st. I know that won't look as good on the front page, but your opinions will carry a little more weight.

But I never generalized anything. I simply disproved that jackassery is completely ubiquitous throughout Halo 2.

I wasn't trying to. I was simply trying to prove it's not as bad as it seems.

*sighs*

And all black people like fried chicken, every Mexican knows how to cook beans, every white guy loves Wonderbread, and every Asian can eat rice with chopsticks.

It will always be impossible to generalize a group of people.

WTF?!? Are jerks a race now? LOL!

Nobody is making an absolute statement here. Nobody is saying that ALL people that play Halo 2 are idiots! We are saying that Halo 2 has shown itself, in general, to have a lot of jerks playing it.

Actually, we aren't even really generalizing about group of people, we are making a general statement about a video game! Are you offended by this or seomthing?

Who needed to disprove that? Who is arguing that?

I don't think anyone is arguing that jerks are universal throughout Halo 2.

Whatever.

Your point is timely and well taken. It is possible to play H2 without encountering idiots. However, the people on the other side of the table have a pretty substantial case. Your data can used to substantiate your claim, but it is nowhere near an objective and complete test, and I don't think you ever thought it was.

You need to do this outside of rumble if you want to hear track talk. Rumble is almost always full of quiet people.

Try unranked games, and ranked team games for a while.

Right. I also like Louis Wu's summary:

Don't let the jerks get you down.
Mintz read the article at Newspail yesterday, the one that complained about the racist and obnoxious kiddies you meet in Halo 2 Matchmaking - and decided to perform an experiment. It wasn't a very extensive experiment... but the results were interesting nonetheless. So many people complain about the offensiveness you find online that its ubiquitousness is simply accepted at this point - when maybe the reality is slightly less negative than all that. (Louis Wu 11:19:16 UTC)

Wow!

I'm gonna play three games of Halo 2 and submit my results to Louis Wu as scientific evidence that no females play Halo 2. At all. Ever. End of story.

Of course, that wouldn't be making a generalization.

I have seen the darker side of online videogames, its not every match. On the contrary, it only happens about 25% of the time. But I suppose these matches stand out more because the negative experience makes more of an impact on a person. We expect to have fun playing a game, and are instead brutally attacked ( and not just with virtual weapons). I have been verbally abused, and even threatened bodily harm before. Other games I have laughed my head off and made good friends with people I have never even seen face-to-face. I'm sure we all agree; however, that we just have to wade past all the jack-asses and have a good time by blowing their little butts to Halo Hell again and again and again. I know that they never made me put trow away my copy of Halo

What was the point of saying this? I thought we had closure. I never said my experiment is undeniable proof that only good, saintly gentlemen (and women) play Xbox Live. I don't know what you're trying to do here, so just stop.

Mintz, you claim that you went out looking for abusive racists in matchmaking, yet from reading your post game comments it would appear that you didn't say a word during any of these games, nor did anyone else. Why don't you try another experiment, go into any playlist other than Rumble Pit and say a few words, yet try to disguise your voice as a woman, English man, or put on some other heavy accent and see what happens. Then I promise you'll run into the "jerks everyone claims infest Xbox Live".

You may have never said that, but you treated your experiment like it was.

I'm just saying that I think it is pretty funny that HBO would post your little... experiment, when it didn't prove anything at all. I guess if you play your cards right, people will do anything for you.

Nobody had to run an experiment to say the stuff you have said: that it is possible to play with nice people. Nor did anyone need an experiment to know that you shouldn't let one little punk ruin your night. However, the point is that it isn't just one punk... usually.

I still would like to know the real reason for all these shenanigans, but really I am just milking this for all its worth, 'cause it cracks me up.

...and no we didn't have closure, we had... "whatever".

But you know, whatever.

whatever

Yeah, for some dude who isnt a minority or anything to just play three games, and say that it isn't a constant problem is ridiculous. Why even bother doing such a test if you get bored after only 3 games?? For this to make any kind of significant statement, you would have to play at least 20 games over a variety of playlists and such. I'm English, and I get railed on all the time. And, even if it WERE only 25% of the time, that is still enough. Dealing with some idiot for a quarter of your experience is a lot.

Then quit. Let them win. Or, you can just ignore the friggin biggot bastards and beat their asses to prove you're the better person. People like them make me sad to be a white American. All I'm saying is that, for all your complaining, I bet you still haven't thrown your copy of the game away.

The one thing that really gets me annoyed with "different" people is when they are speaking another language. I hate that! It annoys the crap out of me. They can't communicate in game and thus are not very helpful. I guess there is really nothing wrong with it, but I wish everyone just spoke English,

That is when I can be a jerk, I tend to make fun of people jabbering in another language on XBL. Especially French people! :)

Try playing Gears with me and Will and add that to your research...

Why Are you so closed minded? anyway if you were actually any good it wouldn't matter..

They are annoyed and frustrated that you can't communicate in game and thus are not very helpful.

Thats true. Although if they are French, they probably will be hiding somewhere anyway, so it won't matter. :)

I've found that the best way to keep myself calm in some of these games is to just leave my headset out. People don't really coordinate attacks anyway, some people will even smack you in the back for taking "their" sniper rifle whilst shouting "dont take my sniper b1tch!" I play a lot of Team Training and Team Slayer and I agree that that's where a lot of rude things are said. My friends and I play unranked for fun, and its always way better to just laugh at the silly gamertags and not have a headset in to hear their childish taunts. Try it out sometime if you haven't already

I didn't say there isn't a constant problem, I said it isn't as bad as everyone whines about.

It seems to me that everyone reads this article the way they want to read it, not the way it's written.

Tell me about it

Big Team Battle = WTF

I am english and the very 1st comment is right they just go on about the queen and shit.

The core of the problem IMO:

The fact that you have to hang in a pregame lobby for up to 5mins/ If you could join and quit games like on Halo PC (soory to mention it) when they are active i it would get rid of the big arguements.

But to be honest every game has its dark crappy underside. Its just voice means that its much bigger on XBL.