Halo 3 Beta First Impressions

I'm just wondering, but where is the plasma rifle?

Here is how I am describing the HALO 3 beta:

it's a pretty HALO 2
it's a big HALO 2
it's HALO 2 with more H2-ish features

The vague descriptions above aren't a knock on the game. HALO 2 was a good game. It was fun. We all know how we felt about HALO 1 and HALO 2. But, who would have thought that the HALO 1 that we played for years would eventually lead to this?

From HALO 1 to HALO 2, there were some big changes that happened that affected gameplay (interactive content, destructible content, the energy sword, no pistol, round-based play, no fall damage, a new health system, the n00b combo, dual wielding, air lifts, etc.). In HALO 3, I'm not yet seeing the big change in gameplay that happened from H1 to H2. The gap between H1 and H2 is MUCH larger than the gap between H2 and H3. I am saying that the gap between H2 and H3 is small.

I guess that's a little surprising to me. I was expecting (even the) beta to have more WOW to it that it did. I was expecting the beta to show me things that I wasn't expecting. I had a friend over that hadn't played HALO 2 in quite a while. He said that if it weren't for the User Interface and the new controller (he didn't have an XBOX 360) that he would think that the HALO 3 beta is HALO 2. I agree.

People that liked H2 will definitely like H3 unless they have high expectations. I actually expect some members of the media to knock on H3 and give it bad ratings. Bungie has made a well polished game. There will be no game out there like it for a while. It is a great work of art and a work of technical achievements. But, I suspect that some people will see it as HALO 2.

If you had reasons to not like HALO 2, I don't see how HALO 3 will be that much different.

If only Bungie would have done something similar to HALO 1 (take previous game, add better graphics, and improve online play). A HALO 1 with better graphics and an online party system would have caused me to lose a lot of sleep. I guess it kind of already did that (HALO PC).

I do have high expectations for the campaign. The story had better be amazing. It should take a longer amount of time to play than the H2 campaign. It had better have online co-op.

All that said, I think HALO 3 will be hugely popular. It will become the most popular game released on XBOX 360. Why? One reason is because the new interface makes it much easier to party up and play with friends. The easier it is to do that, the more people will do it. Additionally, a lot of HALO fans haven't adopted the XBOX 360 platform yet. HALO 3 will draw them in. Some people will buy the console just because the new game is coming out. I know several people that are doing this. And finally, the XBOX 360 console will be almost TWO years old at the time HALO 3 releases. It's already penetrated the market. It's widely accepted as a great gaming platform. The risk of buying a $400 gaming system with just a 20GB hard drive and no wi-fi has already been dealt with by many gamers. So, I think old HALO fans will be anxious to buy the game and won't have to think long about buying a brand new console just to play this game. Once they get the game and console, playing the game will be really easy thanks to the beautiful UI.

I don't think THX has found a LAN replacement for HALO 1. I think we'll LAN HALO 3 as much as we LAN'd HALO 2, which wasn't that much. Long live the HALO 1 LAN.

Some comments that will add to what Midnight wrote:

• The stats at B.net are cool. Here are mine (link).
• There are no number-based rankings in H3.
• You are ranked in a military style (recruit, private, corporal, etc.).
• The UI for H3 is Web 2.0. It's slick, fast, easy to use, and rich.
• H1 shotty is back.
• MC doesn't seem to run faster.
• MC seems to run slower than in the Betalicious video.
• Gamespeed didn't seem faster for me.
• I hit the "X" button on accident way too often.
• I often deploy tech where I don't want to.
• RB is your friend. You use it to pick up and reload weapons.
• I said that the reload button is remapped
• No reloading/cancellation tricks seems to work (BRB, BRX, etc.).
• Melee's seems a bit stronger. Melee lunging still in the game.
• You can save a "film" of the game you just played.
  • they are about 5MB in size
  • Bungie gives you 5 slots on their servers to save films
  • anyone can download those films from your profile
  • you can save films to your hdd if you wish
  • you can share films in a peer-to-peer fashion
• Bungie has added more menu items to the "view gamercard" screen.
• On top of the screen are three H3-related menu items
  • HALO 3 service record
  • HALO 3 file share
  • HALO 3 party details
• The in-game UI and XBOX 360 UI are very connected.
• One takes you to the other seemlessly.
• Vehicle passengers seem MUCH easier to kill with BR (and other weps)
• I got 30 messages on my friends list yesterday
• 40 people on my list have the beta
• Thousands of unique people are playing it now
• I guess Bungie has big family

/s/

Corporal EA
Grade 1, H3 beta
United Nations Space Command

PS. A look at the ranking details screen:

PS2. An online version of HALO 1 will ship inside the retail version of HALO 3. You heard it hear first.

By the way, I would never consider Halo PC to be a subtitute or the equivalent of a Live-enabled Halo--they're different games, trust me.

I lost invested a lot of time playing an online version of HALO 1, whether it be on a console or PC. That was my point. Trust ME that I was disappointed in who HALO 1 was ported from the console to the PC.

I wish i would have gotten one of those beta invites, makes me sad to see so many people on my list playing it:( Guess I will wait til wednesday? Is that when the other beta hits? Damnit bungie...jdizzles a friend!

Rap, I agree with all of your comments as well, obviously excluding our difference in opinion of the game speed.

It wasn't H2. It wasn't H1. But it was a lot closer to H2 than H1.

What about grenades? How is the damage radius and strength?

My sentiments exactly! I think that sums up my description completely.

I honestly don't know what to think about it. At times, I was enjoying the game, but other times I was very aggravated by the changes in gameplay.

I thought the visual side of the game was pretty impressive. I liked the look of the maps. My favorite map was, hands down, Highe Ground. I really, really thought that map was awesome. I did not like Valhalla... much too large.

I didn't realize the lack of a sword until I read this thread. I didn't miss it. At all.

RIP s-word, and good riddance.

I cussed at my controller today because of a little twerp with the sword in H2. Glad they got rid of it.

No more sword? That's absurd. Okay, it was a huge gameplay imbalance and generally a bane for consistent skill-based gaming, but is Bungie simply going to take it out and pretend Halo fans never remembered and used the sword?

I know it's just a game (Hell, it's Halo), but still, it seems a bit odd you won't be able to use the sword anymore. That's like taking out dual-wielding.

Yeah, but you gotta remember they did take the original pistol out and pretty much banished it from the halo universe like it never existed...so I'm sure the sword could quickly and hopefully follow suit. My question about the sword is why not just make it like it is in the campaign? Where you can only use it so many times and its power dies? That would have made sense to me.

For my part they can get rid of dual wielding as well. I wouldn't miss it, I hardly ever use it. But I can tolerate it better than I can the sword.

They made a good move by getting rid of the sword. BTW, is it official that it will not be in the finished product?

I would like to see dual wielding go away as well. I imagine that sometime during the development of H2 somebody had the epiphany of "Hey, let Chief have two weapons at once!" It was probably so seemingly cool that nobody really thought to see if it adversely affected gameplay. Now we're left with a turd in the punchbowl that nobody will talk about or consider axing even though it is one of the biggest factors that separates the awesomeness of H1 from the mediocrity of H2.

Did I miss something? Who says there will be no sword in H3?

The more I play, the more I think it IS H2. It's almost not a different game. The gameplay is almost exactly the same. From what I've seen in the beta, Bungie could have released downloadable content to do what's in the H3 beta and I wouldn't have been surprised.

What I'm expecting in the retail version that's not in this beta:
The map editor.
More vehicles.
More weapons.
More maps.

Only the map editor can make H3 a different game, IMO. The map editor MAY allow someone to create an H1 mod. I'm not expecting it to, though. I'm expecting the map editor to only allow someone to make new geometry.

That is what I want to know. I had not heard that until this thread. I assumed it was true, and I hope it is. But I'd like to know if that is official or not.

Have we not seen pics of a sword in H3?

I mean, the energy sword never had a predecessor like the pistol or the assault rifle did. We'll need something that replaces the energy sword--perhaps a weapon with a more limited range and an even more limited ammo supply?

All I know is that it's not in the Beta. Maybe it's in the full version, maybe not.

MK, JDogg is saying that the M6C is essentially a new weapon (to H2). It has a totally different power per shot, zoom, and capability to hit at long range. You could give Chief a giant dildo to melee the covenant with and call it a pistol, but that doesn't make it a pistol.

So you think the pistol is a d****?

So you think you can just reply to posts without using the "reply" button?

I'm just talking about the beta.

As far as dual-wielding goes, I use it rarely in Halo 3. There's few chances to use them, and if there is a chance, there is usually two of the dual-wield-able weapons placed side-by-side. I like it this way.

Good point. If you do need to dual wield at least there's two weapons ready for you (like the spikers and SMGs at Valhalla).

+1

More later.

After spending more time in the beta, I can say without a doubt that HALO 3 has not yet met my expectations. If Bungie released a new update for HALO 2 and the stuff in the HALO 3 beta were in the update for HALO 2, I wouldn't think twice about it being a different game.

I read a few reviews this weekend and some members of the media were unimpressed also. They knocked on the graphics mostly. Surely the graphics will get a facelift before release. But for now, I can say that the static graphics aren't impressive. The dynamic graphics (like the bodies of water, water falls, particles, the king of the hill, the energy drainer) all look cool. But they are not seen very often. We are continuously looking at the textures, lighting, and shadows. Those graphics that aren't changing seem bland for a next-gen Bungie title. This IS the XBOX 360. This isn't an XBOX. Show me the pretty.

Although the graphics aren't that great in my book, it's not always about the graphics. I would play a crappy looking FPS all day long if the gameplay were great. (That's what I did with Shadowrun). And that's just it.

HALO 3's gameplay seems old. It seems like HALO 2. That's not a bad thing. But, it looks like HALO 3 will be a $60 add-on to HALO 2 with new maps.

Splitscreen is kind of neat. On a widescreen TV, black bars are displayed on the L and R sides of the monitor. It kind of has the feel of playing splitscreen on a 4:3 TV.

Well I was very dissapointed.. I hated the way they changed the sniping and how they changed the X button.. I mean couldn't they have just as easily made the right bumper do what the X button now does for some reason?.. The battle rifle also seems different I'm not sure what it is (sinse I've only played like 6 games..) but I didn't like that eithr. I mean I've been able to play this game for the past three days and I've had no desire to.. I'm havin way more fun playin crackdown with the new downloads. This is not a good start..

I'd guess I agree with Rapture's and Midnight's sentiments. I guess I'll add on my own opinion of H3 currently. Who knows what the final product will bring. I'm only talking about gameplay. Which in the end is all I really care about.

Bungie has made some improvements over H2. First and for most the weapon spawn system has sort of been fixed. The control based weapon spawn system is gone. The weapons spawns now are fairly random. Weapons seem to spawn “around” certain time intervals. It isn't H1's system. Which I thought was perfect.

It is ironic H1's weapon spawn system, according to Bungie, was simple because they didn't understand the Xbox hardware well enough. Odd it seems a mistakes or unintended consequences by Bungie whether background reload, quick camo, the pistol, BXR, double shots, nading weapons, etc are the best aspects of the game. I once saw an interview with Peter Bogdanovich. He was talking about something very similar. How mistakes and things that aren't planned come out good on film. Bogdanovich mentioned an interview he had with Alfred Hitchcock. Hitchcock said, you could think of the job of a director to be a director of mistakes. I guess the skill comes in recognizing them when they work.

Another plus is the lessening of the melee lunge. It seems it is somewhere in between H1 and H2. I haven't had a where the hell did I get assassinated from moment yet, a constant factor in H2.

Bungie has also lowered the prevalence of dual wields by not spawning you with a dual wieldable weapon. To me this isn't a big deal. It was fixed in H2 with customs. Rapture has already stated the problems with AR and spawning with it. So I won't go on.

A few things have changed that aren't improvements from H2. The BR, carbine, human and covenant sniper are weaker. They have less magnetism, and less distance(this could just be a causality of less magnetism/autoaim). Also the BR just seems very inaccurate with sideways moving targets. The human and covenant snipers also have lower rates of fire.

At first this seems like a good thing. It is harder to aim so a there will be a larger bigger gap between good and bad players. The problem is overall it takes longer to kill opponents. This along with the distance issues with the BR tip the balance even further in favour of up close run and gun battles or double team 2v1 battles. Problem is no custom game will be able to curb this much. And, in my opinion, this actually makes H3 actually play worse than H2.

To be clear, I think you are saying that the damage a BR or Carbine exerts is about the same as in HALO 2. However, since the autoaim has been reduced, then less shots are landing making it seem like the weapons in HALO 3 are weaker. If you didn't intend on saying that, then you should. That's how I feel.

I feel that the BR and Carbine are about the same as in H2. The Carbine might have a little extra damage/round now.

I actually like the aiming a little better in H3. It just feels better.

Yes the damage per round is the same. I meant weaker as in not being as useful.

The carbine has the same damage, but does have weaker autoaim/magnetism. It only feels stronger now because the BR is just so weak.

I'd also say the aiming system probably is better. I wasn't complaining about this. I was saying the time it takes to kill people is much longer. This pushes the combat into up close battles and it is more about double teaming (2v1) battles. In H1 you could immediately pistol someone out in the open. In H2 this was diminished, and in H3 it is diminished even more. I don't like this.

The BR would be much better if it had a higher rate of fire, and keeping the reduced magnetism. Allowing for quick kills while still being hard to use.

I noticed that after you take someone's shields down, it is much harder to finish someone off. I noticed this especially with the BR. I kept asking Foulbreed and Midnight if they thought it was harder, but they didn't seem to notice as much. I think this is due to the reduced auto aim.

Even with the Assault Rifle I would shoot someone after their shields were down and it would seem like forever before they would actually die. I would be yelling "COME ON!!!" ...and then sometimes I would die. Foulbreed and Midnight seemed to attribute this to my general lack of aim rather than any changes. ...perhaps they are right.

Now that you mention it, I think there is a longer delay between the flicker of someone's shields failing and the point at which they die.

I don't want to hear your complaints about sniping; the new snipers doesn't stop you from sniping me in the head. Every. Freakin'. Time.

I feel that Halo 3 is better than Halo 2, but doesn't live up to being a successor to Halo 1.

I still can't figure out the spawn system. I miss Halo 1's, and the necessity of a timer.

I feel there is less BS in the game, like with Halo 2's lunge melees.

The carbine DOES have more power per shot.

I don't think the BR is weaker. It's still fully possible to kill somebody with four bursts.

I think the AR is the perfect starting weapon. It doesn't do headshots, but it doesn't suck as much as Halo 2's SMG. It's not a piece of crap if you land close to every shot, which leads to a kill. Slayer, a tip is to stop shooting the AR if the reticle is not over a person. Every shot in the AR counts. You think you can just let 'er loose and kill somebody, but you end up reloading before that person ever dies.

SMGs have received a significant boost in Halo 3. They actually feel like the bullet hoses Bungie wanted them to be.

In conclusion, I'll still buy the mega-loller-huge version of Halo 3. It's not as good as the individual-skill-is-super-important Halo 1, but not as bad as the you-can't-do-anything-without-a-teammate Halo 2. Considering how much time I sunk into Halo 2 (despite it being my least favorite), I'll put plenty of time into Halo 3.

I'll just take exception to these two things. The rest is your opinion.

I meant weakened not as in it doesn't take four bursts. I meant weakened as in the magnetism has been weakened. And you guys don't think there is less magnetism with the BR we must not be playing the same game.

The carbine doesn't have more power. Go ahead and count the shots if you want. It is the same. I'd also say the magnetism has been slightly weakened on it. However it is not as drastic as the BR or sniper.

I think the AR is a good starting weapon because you can't dual wield it. This means there will be less dual wielding in the game. That's good enough for me.

The AR is also a better weapon than the SMG (stand alone) in almost every situation.

I think it's a big upgrade over the SMG, however, it's still isn't that great of a starting weapon. Most everyone I play with immediately goes hunting for a BR before they starting attacking someone.

The AR can't get much better without it becoming the BR. If it gets much weaker, it'll be a single wielding SMG. I don't like it, but hopefully it will do.

Beside, Bungie came though with some BR-start playlists.

@Mintz: Why is HALO 3 better than HALO 2?

I'll agree with Mintz that H3 is better than H2. The combination of factors just makes it feel better to me. Just my .02

I made a joke about it at first, but seriously, use the "reply" button on posts to do that cascading comments thing (like this very comment to yours). It's less confusing.

+1

Why H3 is better (so far) than H2:

The needler is worth picking up.

The AR is a better spawn weapon.

Better graphics.

The ATV is a lot of fun, and it provides zippy transportation without wasting a 'hog/ghost.

Shotgun is now useful again.

Awesome interface.

Saved Films.

It has a different/better pace of gameplay. So far I feel it's less team-oriented than Halo 2, and I felt Halo 2's reliance on team play was a drawback. It falls short of Halo 1's reward for individuality, but I think it strikes a better balance of team-play and individual play than Halo 2.

The new deployable objects are fun. They don't hinder gameplay like I thought they would. It still feels distinctly "Halo" without being too cheesy.
****************

While I feel these things improve upon Halo 2, I don't think Halo 3 encapsulates the original atmosphere of Halo 1 that we're all so nostalgic for. I'm OK with that; I don't expect it to. Halo 3 is a different game, and I look forward to its final release.

Of the items you listed I think the deployable technology and interface are the biggest improvements. I'm kind of wishing their was more tech to deploy. The things you mentioned are kind of "meh" IMO.

I don't feel that Saved Films will be a big hit for me. They might be good for people that are into MLG or Tricking.

I don't think the graphics are that much better than HALO 2. They definitely aren't pushing the envelope on the 360. I am disappointed in the beta graphics. I think Bungie's got a long way to go to be a graphical showcase for the 360 platform.

The weapons you mentioned are better, but as soon as you are near a BR or Carbine you are going to drop them anyway.

The ATV is neat. I rarely hop on one even though they are usually near my spawning locations. Still, I don't like vehicles in Team Slayer gametypes. So, adding more neat vehicles to the game isn't going to make it better for me.

I'm not seeing how HALO 3 is more of an individual skill game than HALO 2. Two of the three maps are very large. Because their is more space in those maps, it is more likely that a team mate will be farther away from you than in a small map. Because your team mate is probably farther away, you will be fighting by yourself more often. Because you have more skills than most of the people in the beta, you are going to be getting a lot of kills by yourself.

One thing you didn't mention that I like is the physics engine. You can now grenade-jump. Vehicles also now react to grenades. The physics seems really cool.

I also think HALO 3 is better than HALO 2. But only because HALO 3 is a revision of HALO 2. It's almost like HALO 2 got a new patch. For me the gameplay is exactly the same as HALO 2 except for the deployable tech (which is rarely played).

Here's a quick impression I've gotten from the H3 Beta:

It feels way different now that the magnetism is lowered.. I like it, and hope they don't add more magetism in the aiming.

I kept hearing how bad the graphics were... I disagree, I think the graphics are fine. All they really need to do is tweak the coloring of some of the textures, but other than that, there's more geometry in the levels, textures are detailed, weapons look good in your hand, resolutions are good, it looks fine to me.

Most of our matchmaking games were very close. I don't know if that's some tweaking within H3 Matchmaking, but it was fun.

You have to rely on your teammates in slayer games quite a bit.

BR/Laser/Sniper are the go-to weapons.

more later.

here are my first impressions as copy and pasted from the Bungie forums, I think I was one of the few actually writing it with intent to help Bungie, lol. Keep in mind these are FIRST impressions and some of them have changed:

1. First Impressions
Cons
Good, but not blown away. My biggest "beef" so far is the gametype Territories is worse than it was in Halo 2, but then again I hated territories from the beginning. Territories on Valhalla is the worst idea ever. The running from Halo 2 seems to have not changed, and seems slower than in Mr. Jukes "Betalicious" montage. This is a bad thing considering how big places like Valhalla are. I would suggest maybe upping the running speed of a Spartan, but
not insanely much, just a bit more than Halo 2. Weapons- The needler is insanely overpowered. Tone it down please. Same with the Brute gun thats dual wieldable(can't think of the name). They need a slight toning down, but nothing insanely major. Other than that I am mostly pleased with how the weapons are balanced. Maps- Valhalla was my least favorite. It's a good map, but needs to be considerably specific in gametypes. The best ones I have played so far there were Team Slayer games. I'll update this thread as I play more there. Gametypes- Territories sucks huge. Please get rid of it. Other than that no real beef with the gametypes. The character model of the Spartan this time around is good. Equipment- The Power Drainer just seems to not fit with the game- I would suggest getting rid of it. It's annoying. Another con so far would be the speed in which you switch weapons. Maybe making it a tad bit faster would help. The Grenades- The Spiker needs to be able to be thrown a tad further. Frags are still nerfed like H2- PLEASE make them a bit more powerful. Other than that, good.
Pros
There are more pros then I thought there would be. I like the weapons and equipment minus what I mentioned in the Cons section of my first impressions. I really thought I would hate the Spartan Laser, but I do not. Mostly because It's really not a noob weapon. It takes aim and skill to keep it steady. AUTO AIM- THANK YOU!!!! for toning it down to Halo 1 levels!! I hated the MASSIVE auto aim of Halo 2. It now is more skillful for that.Thank you. Maps- I think the ones you selected are good and really fun for a variety of gametypes, minus Valhalla. That one needs specific gametypes, its not good for them all. Graphics- You definitely delivered on that end. I'm not one who takes a ton of stock in them but you guys have outdone yourselves. Looks a ton better than Halo 2. good work. Vetoing in Matchmaking- This could be the thing that persuades me to actually play it a lot. I love vetoing something my party does not want to play. Great new feature. The interface of Halo 3 is great too, very pretty and well laid out. I have gotten used to the new control scheme only after 1 day, so bravo there. I like the new controls. Weapons- I like the balance and the new ones minus the ones I mentioned in the cons section. good work for the most part. I wasn't actually that excited about Halo 3, this beta has me a bit more optimistic than my usually pessimistic self is. Not a lot, but more than I thought. I love 1 Flag CTF on High Ground. Its so much fun- and is well laid out in terms of being able to plan a good base defense and a good frontal assault. Great map design on all of them except Valhalla. Not a big fan there but it is good for some gametypes. Needs one warthog on each side for TS, in my opinion. Or a Ghost in addition to the ATV. Great work on the ATV. Very realistic physics. I enjoy it but it's a death trap on high ground. The Battle Rifle is good but needs a tiny bump in power, imo. I love the lack of auto aim- great work there. I think it's a nice blending of some things from Halo 1 and 2, but is by far NOT done yet. There is still work to do, but thats me talking to the choir- you already know that. I hope this helps Also THANK YOU for de-nerfing the shotgun and restoring it to its Halo 1 glory!! Also, Saved Films FTW. Best. idea. ever.

After reading through these posts I felt inclined to provide some much needed insight in regards to certain comments that were made about the Halo 3 BETA.

From my perspective the underlying tone of much of the comments here seem to be generally derived from an overwhelming sense of nostalgia and a desire to relive the glory days of CE and all its pistol loving glory. And anything short of that, even in a BETA, triggers criticism despite how utterly pointless and petty certain aspects of said critique may be.

Now don't get me wrong, there will always be a place in my Halo-lovin' heart for the good ol days of CE. The rush of winning pistol battles and setting up strategies and counter strategies upon the next key respawns may very well never be duplicated.

However, that's not to say that the latest installment doesn't measure up to the standards of which we've all become accustomed to. It most certianly has. To claim that Halo 3 (in its current BETA form) is nothing but a rehashed, more polished, updated version of Halo 2 is displaying a severe lack of insight and ,dare I say, exposes one's overall knowledge of the franchise as questionable at best.

Anyone remotely familiar with both Halo games (Pros and Cons) should come to the realization that Halo 3 takes the best aspects of both games while weeding out what obviously didn't work especially for Halo 2. This IMO is the ultimate Halo experience and will turn out to be the game that ALL of us have been waiting for.

Key changes that negate the implication that Halo 3 is closer to Halo 2:

-Less AA and magnetism gives Halo 3 more of as CE feel than Halo 2 which is a HUGE change. As a result more emphasis will be placed on individual skill while lessening the dominance of the long range weaponry such as the sniper and BR. A vast improvement over Halo 2 as far as I'm concerned.
-revamped weapon spawns which will be customizable upon launch. So CE players may indeed be able to dust off their timers come Sept.
-More balanced weapons. Each weapon has been fine tuned with either enhancements or downgrades enabling players to make use of every weapon for specific situations without one weapon being overly powerful. Those who claim that the needler is
overpowered need to seriously put some more time into the game. You'll come to realize that its effectiveness is limited at mid to long range against a strafing opponent.
-The AR is an excellent starting weapon especially when compared to that piece of **** that was the Halo 2 SMG. Obviously on a map the likes of Valhalla with only 4 players the game isn't going to play as well as we'd like. But Bungie's intentions here were nothing more than a mere introduction to their refined approach to the design of large maps which has me very impressed. So going out of your way to complain about the map itself and/or the AR start here is pretty much pointless.
-New gametypes like VIP and the new territories are just a taste of what's to come. BTW land grab and territories are two totally different games and will be fully customizable so complaining about this is also kind of pointless.
-Deployables have enhanced the gameplay in many positive ways without having an overwhelming impact on the overall outcome. And I can garuntee you that what we've seen in the BETA is just the tip of the iceberg.
-Saving films is awesome. Competetive and casual players alike will find many uses for it and it will redefine the Halo online experience especially when the complete version comes out in Sept.
-The MM and party system sets new standards for online play. Being able to veto gametypes is great and I can't say enough about how fantastic the muting feature is ;-)
-DWing is more situational and tactical than it was in Halo 2. No longer is it being forced down our throats. Their effectiveness individually is also an added bonus depending on the situation. ex: if I want to take out multiple targets at mid range I'd rather have an SMG than an AR due to the larger clip size and increased ROF.
-The new physics engine is also reminiscent of CE in many ways (nade jumps, flipping vehicles, realistic rag doll animations, ect.)That alone makes it far superior and vastly different from Halo 2 in terms of gameplay.

Some misconceptions:

The sword and pistol will be back for Halo 3. The sword will have a battery life. The effectiveness and range of the lunge attack is still uncertain.

The pistol has been downgraded severely so it will only resemble its CE counterpart in skin only. However, I wonder if the TSK killing machine that we all love or love to hate is really needed? I mean there is less AA now and we do still have the BR and Carbine. Not to mention power weapons such as the RL and sniper rifle being significantly harder to dominate with. So is its absence or alteration that big of a deal? I don't think it is.

All in all I am very pleased with what I've seen so far and am quite confident that the final installment will live up to my expectations especially if the latest rumors do prove to be accurate. 4 PLAYER ONLINE CO-OP!!!!!!

Some good points.

After playing it for a while, I've actually been having a blast lately on H3 Beta, (big team battle aside). I particularly enjoy not being forced to dual wield.

My thoughts on customization. Yes, it may get us closer to the H1 experience that we all remember, but it will never be the same without the original pistol. It just can't happen. Now, I'm not saying that the other improvements aren't welcome, just that every crowd will not be satisfied with H3 as they were with H1. We've had discussions before about how the supposed "Balance" that Bungie is touting as an enhancement to gameplay is not necessarily a plus to everyone. In my opinion, balance is not always a good thing. Now, if it's a game developer's intention for the gamer to use a specific weapon for different scenarios (ie, distances to target) then obviously balance would be the goal. If it's the developer's intention to level the playing field and make skill the primary determining factor to who lives and who dies, then obviously having one or two dominating weapons would be the goal. The more randomness you enter into the equation, the less someone with skill will stick out above the rest.

Now, Matchmaking playlists are used by Bungie to sortof force a particular gaming style and get everyone on the same page when enjoying the Halo experience. I would love being able to make public custom game and have someone join in similar to how Gears allows, but I'm not sure they will allow this because of the massive number of options we will be able to tweak.. we'll see.

I love what I'm seeing so far from H3. It is definately not H1 but it is way more fun than H2 imo. The make or break will most likely be in the playlists, not in the customization. Customization will only be a factor for private games and LANs, and from what I'm hearing, customization should offer some very interesting games, maybe even some 'H1 like' ones.

+ Uno

Note to self... do not use reply feature.

j/k

Good points, stylz, but it's just too convenient to dismiss everything negative. If you don't see anything that needs improvement then you aren't looking hard enough. I am sure the finished product will be fun to play regardless if we consider it perfect or not.

That's just a matter of opinion as far as I'm concerned. We can't really determine this to be a fact at this point and time. With all of the customizable options that will most likely be available to us we may actually be able to equal or maybe even surpass that quality of play with or without the reimplementation of the CE TSK pistol. Like I said we still have two viable weapons which take on similar roles and with the decrease in AA their learning curve will arguably be just as steep.

Not everyone was satisfied with the gameplay of CE. If that were indeed the case casual and hardcore gamers wouldn't be engaging in pistol debates to this day. What Bungie is obviously trying to do with the BETA and with Halo 3 in general is to appeal to everyone without alienating any one specific group. And with the amount of customization that appears to exist along with key gameplay tweaks they may have succeeded.

Actually Bungie has confirmed that, along with custom games and the restricted MM playlists, players will have a third option available too them similar to what GOW and many other games have at the moment. I believe they've refered to it as Xbox Live Public which will allow players to join any hosted game which meets with their optimatch criteria and preferences. That's why many of the complaints that have surfaced within many Halo-related forums of late are pretty much moot when taking into account the number of online options that we will have access to approxiametly 4 months from now.

Actually I never implied that the game was without flaws although I do feel that the good overwhelmingly outweighs the bad even if it is just a BETA.

I love what they've done with the AR. It's a vast improvement over what we were given to work with in Halo 2. However, I wouldn't mind a minor tweak to say the ammo clip (maybe 42 rounds instead of 32)and/or the accuracy. Using the D-pad for team speak is a minor annoyance but it's something that I can easily deal with. Besides, there aren't really any other practical alternatives when taking into account the button layout of the 360 controller itself.

I also think that the bruteshot could be a tad stronger. Despite the addition of 2 extra rounds it doesn't seem to pack the same punch as it predecessor. But then again in the long run it may prove to be more effective than I give it credit for. We'll see.

Other than that I don't really have any other major issues that I feel need to be addressed. I'm fully aware of the limitations of the BETA in terms of graphics, content and features. And I have an idea of what to expect when the final version drops in September. So complaining about lackluster gametypes or gameplay imbalance or the absence of certain features and weapons is more or less a waste of time IMO. (Ex: The saved films feature is very limited at the moment. You can only playback matches and you can only share a certain number of saved files with your friends. However, I'm fully aware that upon the game's completion we will be able to get the full experience so it's really not worth getting all bent out of shape about it.)

Sltylz: We welcome your comments. Thanks for joining into the conversation. Now to business…

“Severe lack of insight?” “Knowledge of the franchise as questionable at best?” Come on. That’s almost offensive. You write about some of the critiques made here, yet you don’t mention anything critical of HALO 3 in your original post. So, I would claim that your lack of criticism for the game is not insightful.

Uh, yeah. You hit on the head. That's the feeling of almost every user on this website has. There are two types of gamers in this world: those that prefer HALO 1 over HALO 2 and those that don’t. Not everyone was happy with the new stuff in HALO 2, you know. Some of us still miss HALO 1 and would rather play it over HALO 2. That doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate the sequels to the original.

I mean, we are HALO 1 fanboys. That’s not to say we didn’t enjoy HALO 2. We all enjoyed HALO 2. A lot of us have played many thousands of games of HALO 2. We all think of it as a fun game. But, we still prefer to play HALO 1.

We see the technical marvels that Bungie built into HALO 2. We saw that HALO 2 was just different that any other online game out there. It was revolutionary on many fronts. When it comes to making a showcase video game, Bungie hit a homer with HALO 2. We get it. They'll do the same thing with HALO 3. As I mentioned, HALO 3's online party system and user interface will be like no other. It will be an amazing addition to XBOX 360 titles. It will raise the bar for every developer thinking about making an online multi-player game.

But, we aren't just comparing HALO 3 to HALO 2. We are comparing HALO 3 to HALO 1. That's HALO to us. Bungie made that game, you know. That's the game that we were addicted to. That's the game we still prefer to play when we gather.

HALO 3 IS a lot like HALO 2 on many fronts. I'll go into this more later, but the bottom line is that at the end of the day, you are going to play HALO 3 almost exactly like you played HALO 2.

Look, in HALO 3 what are you going to do? You are going to spawn in and go look for a Battle Rifle. You will be carrying a BR and you won’t have fall damage or a health system. You might dual wield. You might carry the energy sword or n00b combo. You’ll jump through air lifts, shoot at destructible vehicles, and interact with your environment with movable boxes, exploding pods, etc.

The paragraph above could describe HALO 2 just as much as it describes HALO 3. The gameplay will be very similar to HALO 2. I mean, is that NOT the gameplay that happening in the HALO 3 beta now? And that’s OK, though, because HALO 2 was an amazing game.

But saying that HALO 3 is similar to HALO 1 is just not true at this time in the beta. Of your points:

HALO 1 wasn't about “balanced weapons”. It was about the Pistol, Sniper Rifle, and Rockets. Those were the power weapons that everyone wanted. The rest of the weapons were pretty much a wash. They weren't balanced across the board. No one cared for the Needler. No one cared for the Plasma Pistol. The Plasma Rifle and Shotgun had its place, but wasn’t a tool of destruction. HALO 3 seeks to balance all of the weapons. Bungie want’s the weapons to get used. So, the Needler is more powerful – even at medium range it deals some damage. The Shotgun is more powerful and very H1-ish. The Plasma Pistol still tracks hard onto a player and the n00b combo is back.

HALO 2 is the game of balance. That’s why Bungie had young kids and old grandmothers coming into their labs to test the game. They wanted a balanced game that was fun for all. HALO 1 wasn’t about balanced gameplay. It was about the Pistol’s TSK. It wasn’t about reacting to other weapons. So balancing the weapons doesn't move HALO 3 closer to CE.

Also, who said anything about knocking Land Grab and Territories? VIP is already turning into a camp-fest. Gamers are now hiding the VIP in obscure locations in the maps (behind a rock on a cliff in Valhalla or on the ceiling of one of the bases on Snowbound). Once a team gets up one or two kills, why should they attack? They don’t. They camp. They are holding back and forcing the enemies to expose themselves to get to the VIP they are attacking. Right now, VIP is broken. It only works when both teams go out into the open. Then, it’s pretty fun. Thank goodness for game customizations. Still, what can be done to prevent someone from camping the VIP? Turning down the overshield multi-player? BTW, VIP is a gametype from HALO 2. It was called Juggernaut.

I think we like the deployable technology. I even said I’d like to see more of it.

I don't yet see how saved films will "redefine the online HALO experience for me". I rarely watch montages. I don’t watch MLG VoD events (even though I had a part in getting their technology up and running). I haven't yet downloaded a film from someone else.

The mute option has been available since XBOX Live was launched.

The improved physics do not make the gameplay "far superior". It improves the "feel" of the game, but in the end, it doesn't have that much of an effect on gameplay. How do rag doll animations add to gameplay? How often do 'nade jumps coming into play? Not often. The game might end up looking a little better, but in this case looks don't have a great impact on gameplay.

Less auto-aim is an improvement in my book. However, HALO 1 wasn’t popular because of its auto-aim or magnetism. I could argue that HALO 2 was popular because of its powerful auto-aim. It made less skilled shooter better shots. I don't know about you, but I like the feel of the auto-aim in HALO 3.

A revamped weapon spawns system is needed. Power weapon whoring detracted from the gameplay, encouraged camping and linear tactics. Remember Team Slayer on Coagulation? The tactic was get the Sniper Rifles, get BR’s, go to the middle of the map and pick off the players as they spawned in. Even spawning in with BR’s wasn’t much help against Sniper Rifles with plenty of ammo canisters near the middle of the map. That gametype shouldn’t have been about a weapon economy. It should have been about slaying and team slaying. If Sniper Rifles were able to spawn on top of each other, that gametype would have been a lot more approachable. I’m not so sure timing weapons will be back, though, as we saw it in HALO 1. Perhaps we will see it. I have noticed that there doesn't seem to be "power weapons" for each map. That's a good thing.

Look, HALO 2 was a great game. I recommend it to many people. I’ve gotten people to buy XBOX’s just to play this game. I've gotten many people to join XBOX Live. Also, I've played more HALO 2 that just about any other game out there. So, I’m a fan.

And I think HALO 3 will be a great game. I'll play the dog out of it. It will be fun, especially with the new customizations. However, when it comes down to gameplay, HALO 3 seems an awful lot like HALO 2 with some better textures, rare instances of deployable technology, tweaked weapons, and a four-wheeler. Again, it’s about the gameplay and the gameplay will be:

Go get a BR
Fire the BR
No fall damage
No health system
Energy Sword
N00b combo
Dual wielding
Air lifts

That’s HALO 2. That’s also HALO 3.

If you think I don't like HALO 3, then that's because you think I don't like HALO 2, (which I did).

Perhaps I should rephrase the statement to clarify my original intent.. Every crowd that was happy with H1 will not be completely happy with H3. Bungie is trying to not alienate anyone? What about all of the H1 fans? In their attempt to broaden the demographic of Halo players, they are in effect distancing themselves from H1.

As far as whether or not it could be the same without the pistol:
Fact: I have not 3 shotted anyone with any of the weapons within H3. Now if you want to say whether or not that is a good thing, that would be considered opinion. What I have stated is fact.

You've got to be kidding me when your saying H3 can be "H1 like" without some key changes to gameplay that we haven't seen any indication of from Bungie up to this point. Could it happen? Yes, and here's how: Customizable Weapon Spawn Timing + M6D Pistol + 3 Shot Kills + Optional Health System + Optional Fall Damage + Customizable grenade strength and throwing distance... I'm sure the list goes on.

Do I care if this is in H3? Not as much as others. Is H3 going to offer this? Give me a break.

Excellent post, rap. I agree wholeheartedly. I probably liked Halo 2 a little less than you did, but I still liked it, and I agree with what you are saying.

I can never seem to put my thoughts on these games coherently into words... but so far, you and Midnight have done a great job.

I especially like this, in reply to xxxStylzxxx :

Again, excellent post. I hope lots of people continue to read this thread.