I have probably watched the commercial about 8 times now. The theatrics are incredible. I am waiting for someone to uncover an easter egg of information. Bungie always plants them. Again: incredible.

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=765343

QA with frankie...

some more screencaps here http://www.flickr.com/photos/16549652@N00/

Enjoyed the commercial.

I wonder if we saw what the \"X\" button does in that video.

My prediction for the \"X\" button is that it\'s a way to \"save\" yourself from a dangerous situation...a n00b combo or a sword lunge.

After doing some reading I think X will be either sprint or the shielding device we saw.

Does anyone else have problems accepting the widely held belief that the two children are John and Kelly? John and Kelly were both ~6 years old when they began Spartan II training. Those kids are much older than 6. Perhaps we are seeing them on some of their R&R time, but the situation doesn\'t reek of Spartans, IMO. I want to believe that\'s John and Kelly, but I just don\'t. BTW, I have misplaced my copy of The Fall of Reach, so I can\'t check, but isn\'t John described as having freckles--and maybe even red hair?? I may be conjuring that memory from nothing.

However, the repetition of the phrase \"Do you think we\'ll ever meet them?\" adds weight to the John and Kelley theory because it is said as John is putting on his helmet, and it adds irony to the question because yes, unfortunately, they do get to meet them (Covenant).

Read some comments about the new assault rifle (MA5C vs the old MA5B). A Bungie developer described it as not being capable of headshots, but much more effective at long range, and a decreased magazine capacity (32 vs 60 rounds). I think they finally may have nailed the starting weapon. If it is close to the Lancer in GoW, I think it\'ll be a success.

A few points of why I disagree.

First, notice how the two kids are wearing the same outfit. Second, the transition from the first person view of John as a child into MC of the present. Third, why would they just put some random kids in the commercial?

After I thought about it last night, I really do think it is John and perhaps Kelly. It hit me when I noticed, finally, that the male kid transitioned into the helmet. Couple that with some of the things the kids say before and after the transition and I think you have quite a compelling case. Furthermore, Frankie says that the kids are for \"your own interpretation\"... well that does it for me. It\'s a hint, I think.

I need to re-read the Fall of Reach, I can\'t remember much of the details. But, for now I would have to agree with JayWhy, unless I am convinced otherwise. Jeff and I talked a little last night about it, and he said something about the kids being too old to be Spartans... but I don\'t think they looked older than about 6 or 7 years old. If anything, perhaps they did not do a good job of making the kids look that age. I dunno, but I could see them being about 6... if I try. :) I just think the argument is pretty strong for them being John and Kelly. :dunno:

When it is all said and done, I think the trailer is infinitely better if you think of the kids being John and Kelly. It takes away from the artisticness of the trailer if they are random little kids. So in my opinion, the trailer was short and sweet... very sweet!

BTW, I thought Shyzza might like this. [url=][/url]

Actually, isn\'t that the girl who\'s head transitions to the helmet? I watched it again and thats what I thought I saw. But I could be wrong.

If you watch with the preconception that it\'s John and Kelly you can prove it to yourself. If you make the commercial prove it based on content and context, I personally don\'t think it does.

Slayer: When Frankie says \"It\'s for your own interpretation\" that doesn\'t prove anything. I am confident he would say that with either outcome.

Once again, please don\'t misunderstand, I want it to be John and Kelly. It is certainly a cool look at the Spartan history if it is. However, I\'m not convinced.

The male kid didn\'t transition into the helmet. When you see the helmet your are looking through the boy\'s eyes. Watch closely as the camera view switches from Kelly\'s viewpoint looking at John. Then John slightly moves his head looking towards Kelly. The view switches into John\'s first person perspective with the helmet there and Kelly gone. Then transitions once again into the daylight scene at present day with the helmet at the same location.

If the boy and MC are not one in the same. Then why would the child scene transition from the boy\'s first person perspective into the MC\'s first person perspective?

jayWhy:
Just rewatched the commercial a few times. I\'ve got something supporting your stance and something against it.

1. The view that first shows the Spartan helmet could be anyone\'s view, even third person. Third person is used more often in the opening sequence than 1st person, and I do not think we\'re given sufficient video to conclude that the view that first looks at the helmet is John. I think it is just as reasonable (possibly more reasonable) to assume it is 3rd person. If the view looked at the little girl and then panned to the helmet, OK. However, it appears to me that it quickly cuts away from the children to show an unrelated sequence starting with the helmet. I don\'t think we can definitively conclude that we are looking out of the boy\'s eyes when the helmet is first shown. I\'ve probably watched the video a total of 15 times now (literally, between last night, lunch today, and just now) and I never had that impression.

2. The fact the video presents the image of a Spartan helmet lying in the same environment (tall grass) as the children does create a link between the children and Spartans.

I looked for the helmet in the overhead shot of the kids, but couldn\'t find it.

One easter egg.. The warthog in one shot turns into the atv in another shot.

It does if you want it to be John and Kelly... :) Its totally a hint. :lol:

...it\'s John and Kelly.

I personally am split between the two topics. On one hand, the kid sequence could be a lucid dream the Chief is having from his past after getting knocked off his \'hog/ATV, and on the other, it could just be regular kids from the near future chatting about life on other planets.

I\'m more favorable to the fact that it\'s a sequence from John\'s life before he was abducted. The only problem with this is, the kids do NOT look like they\'re six, which is around the age the Spartans were abducted. I\'ve seen plenty of kids at the Space and Rocket Center (and I ask what their ages are sometimes), and those kids in the vid are at least ten.

Mintz, that\'s the way I feel as well. I think it\'d be uber cool if it were John and Kelly, but some things just don\'t add up.

I don\'t think the two kids are Spartans at all. As I understand it, John wasn\'t on Earth until later in his life. This scene happens on Earth.

Bungie has said that the X button isn\'t the sprint button.

When KP said the trailer takes place on Earth, he didn\'t specify the whole trailer, or just the battle part. It\'s entirely possible he thought people only wanted to know about the people.

But KP did say something in the IRC last night along the lines of, \"That sequence could easily be two present-day kids wondering what\'s out there, eh?\"

I\'ve gotta say... that\'s the most plausible.

The bottom line is, whether it\'s young Spartans or regular kids, it doesn\'t matter. In Halo 3, the Chief will still kick ass and utter sub-five-word sentences.

Mintz, in Frankie\'s Q&A I believe he used the wording \"The trailer takes place on earth.\"

I think you\'ve fallen into the trap of picking evidence that supports your theory instead of viewing the evidence as a whole to say the battle scene and the kids don\'t both take place on earth.

Your bottom line is a fact.

John and Kelly forever!!! Hang the evidence! John and Kelly!!!

All directors use the same film editing techniques. There just using a reverse shot getting each characters perspective as the other talks. Watch how Kelly looks at the camera and it is cut into her perspective. The same happens with John.

Also remember there isn\'t a cut between the tall grass shot and the open desert plain shot. The MC helmet blends the two shots together connecting them as if in a dream. Then there is a quick jump cut between the two.

No it isn\'t plausible. Why would two kids on Earth, remember in the Halo universe here, be wondering what was out there with such optimism? When their home world is being destroyed by people \"out there\".

The statement is meant to be ironic instead. Optimism from MC\'s youth cut into his pessimistic future.

KP could have been easily talking about the latter part of the commercial.

Also no one remarked on comment earlier about there clothes, I\'ll clarify. Why would two kids, a girl and a boy, be wearing the same clothes?

Jay,
There\'s no way you can definitively say the first shot of the helmet is 1st person from the boy\'s perspective and not 3rd person. We see the boy\'s perspective twice looking at the girl. The helmet shot is a far cry from our first two glimpses of the boy\'s perspective. It could be anyone...or 3rd person.

C\'mon, there\'s no way it could be two random kids? That\'s a little far fetched to exclude that option.

The battle scene takes place in a different place than the kids? If the helmet transition shot blends the two settings, I would think this implies a connection.

It may be John and Kelly, but you\'ve got to make a few leaps to get there.

Look at it this way the actual \"trailer\" takes part on earth but the \"dream\" takes part somewhere else. That is assuming that the young boy is John.

I\'m almost positive that that was Sam not John, maybe the freckles part but not red hair.

EDIT: Also if you watch the trailer closely, when you first see the helmet it\'s in the dream enviroment, but then you hear a missle or somthin go off and most of the grass switches to sand, to me implying that John was knocked unconcious or somthing and was dreaming of a past time, and then the missle brought him back.

Of course I can\'t be 100%. I\'m close enough though. Look how it is cut. It is fairly obvious the relation. The first person cuts use a continuing action: girl looks at boy, cut, boy looks at girl, cut helmet is there. In addition, the grass, in the foreground and in the background, are the same when Kelly was there and when she is gone with the helmet there.

Bungie doesn\'t do random. Especially when there talking about the story from their games.

Besides why would the direction point to it being MC as a child with the cutting? Plus they could have easily put a blond haired kid in there. And you\'d know it wasn\'t MC. They instead put a brown haired kid, which matches his description from the books.

If it is shown from MC\'s perspective. It is a flashback. It doesn\'t have to be in the same place. Instead they blend reality with the memory and do a quick fast-forward. It blends a more optimistic MC with a pessimistic future.

Also notice how when it does the fast-forward to the MC in the daylight scene. It is in a first person perspective here. Notice how the helmet doesn\'t move. If like your saying, it isn\'t transitioning from MC as child to MC at present. Then the shot cannot be explained and is completely out of place and confusing.

No leaps at all.

I think this is right. I\'m pretty sure this is what the director was going for.

JayWhy,
I\'m almost to the point where I believe it\'s John and Kelly. However, we\'re not going to agree on the perspective of the first helmet view. I think it\'s impossible to tell. Your theory is valid, but it\'s just a theory. You are right that Bungie doesn\'t do random things, this does lend credit to the John and Kelly theory. When I say you have to make a few leaps (and the content just isn\'t there to prove your theory) I mean:
How old are the kids?
Where are they?
How do you marry your answers with the following facts from Fall of Reach:
1. John is from Eridanus 2
2. He is six years old when he is selected for training.
3. Spartan training takes place on Reach.
4. Frankie said in the Q&A, \"Konrad: Frankie, WHERE does the trailer take place?
KP: The trailer takes place on earth.\"

Either Frankie lied, misspoke, or you\'ve got some fiction-weaving tap-dancing to do in order to marry your theory with the Halo timeline.

I simply do not now. I claim nothing, except that no answer makes perfect sense. gg

Watch it closely. Specifically when you first see Kelly, from Johns perspective, with the grass in front of her face. Then the two cuts later with Kelly gone and the helmet there. Notice how the grass is the same in the foreground although the camera panned a little to the right.

It is most likely Reach. Remember the media company doing the commercial was given the books for reference. In there minds this was probably Reach.

Easily, the beginning took place on Reach.

KP nor Frankie are going to say it was partly on Reach. That would give away story elements. Plus they love the speculation it builds on the forums like here. Bungie is always tight lipped about stuff like that. They were simply talking about the end of the trailer. Notice what they didn\'t say also. They didn\'t say it \"all\" took place on Earth nor did they say some of it didn\'t take place on Reach or somewhere else.

No fiction-weaving here, I\'m just saying: if it looks like a duck and quakes like a duck. It is a damn duck.

I don\'t know if you just completly dissregarded my post, didn\'t see it or if you just didn\'t understand what I was saying so i\'ll try to clarify.

Frankie said the trailer takes place on Earth, so assuming that the little boy is John, then you could say that John was dreaming about somthing in his past on a different world (most likely Reach). Since he\'s dreaming, the dream is taking place in his head which is on top of Johns body which is on Earth. So Frankie could safely say that the trailer happens on earth even if the dream doesn\'t.

You also seem like your completly fixed on the kids are either six years old or too old for those kids to be them, There\'s many years unacounted for in the books where this could\'ve happened. Atleast if you Assume that they didn\'t train 24/7.

I\'m not taking a side here, but I agree with Shyzza on this one. Why couldn\'t this have taken place while they were in training, at say, about age 10 or so. That would also explain the matching jump suits.

The whole, John\'s head is on Earth as he has a dream about Reach makes since to me too. That could make the \"whole thing\" take place on earth if you look at it from the right perspective.

I never thought I\'d say something like this about one of Shyzza\'s posts.....

Whoever said they thought Sam was the red headed one, I think you are right, but I\'d have to break my book out to be sure.

I tend to lean toward it being John and Kelly, it just makes more sense for the story.

...Wow, you guys are in to this.

Frankly, the trailer isn\'t that good if the kids are just random, IMO. It loses it\'s artistic and meaningful flare. The kids might not be John and Kelly, but they have to be characters connected with the Halo Universe. I personally think they ought to be John and Kelly... therefore they are... period. :lol: No, seriously, in all honesty I don\'t know who the heck they are, but I am strongly leaning toward John and Kelly... I like to follow the crowd. :)

Shyzza, makes sense now. Thanks for pointing that out. That lends a lot of credibility to the John and Kelly argument.

JayWhy, I have watched the trailer...closely...more than 15 times. I don\'t agree that shot is exclusively from the boy\'s perspective. We can live our lives and not agree on that.

Rev, good points.

Slayer, are you planning on adding anything relevant to this or should I just scroll across your posts in this thread from now on?

I now believe it is John and Kelly because of Shyzza\'s point that the dream takes place in John\'s mind and John is on earth. That means Frankie told the truth, which he always does. If he doesn\'t want to answer something he\'ll tell you he\'s not answering, but I know it\'s not his nature to flat-out lie about something Halo related. You can\'t prove it either way, but I think John and Kelly are more likely than any other option.

Maybe you aren\'t paying attention, because I think the majority of what I have said has been \"relevant\". I said that I don\'t think that the trailer has meaning if the characters are not Halo related. It makes it less artistic as well.

Sorry if I wasn\'t 100% solemn and serious in my last post. I didn\'t know we weren\'t allowed to jest in this topic.

How do we know it\'s Kelly and not some other female Spartan recruit?

Could be another I suppose, I need to go look at the Fall of Reach so I can remember this stuff.

Because after reading Ghosts of Onyx Kelly appears to be the only female Spartan II left. She also got more attention in Fall of Reach than the others. She is also known for being the fastest Spartan.

It could be another female Spartan, but I think odds lean towards Kelly.

Slayer, it\'s your \"I don\'t care about the evidence, I just want it to be John and Kelly\" attitude that I was addressing. There\'s always room for joking in any thread. I was just particularly interested in reading facts about the matter, not liberal hippie feel-good banter. You have contributed a few sentences of substance; I\'ll give you that.

Which was part of my joking around.... but whatever.

Also to lend credibility to, \"The dream takes place on a different world\" near the begining of the trailer, in the top right corner there\'s a big star cluster. I don\'t think there\'s is anything like that in seeing distance from earth (atleast with the naked eye). Also for the kids to be able to see all those stars they would have to be pretty far away from any city\'s (or anything else that gives off alot of light) and bungie said that because of over population people had to move to new worlds, so I dout there would have been anywhere on earth that didn\'t have alot of light coming off nearby (excpet for maybe in the desert which is not where this particular part took place). So this pretty much had to take place on a less populated world, of course unless whoever made this didn\'t take this into acount and just put some starts out there for looks.

Spoiler. I didn\'t know that.

I should\'ve finished the book by now, but I keep putting it off...

Kelly is the only female Spartan II mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx.

I thought Linda was metioned quite a bit too, you know the girls who\'s like the best sniper ever and one of the only spartans that works better alone?

oops I acidentally posted as prey the signed out before I deleted the post :(.

I think Linda is mentioned a few times in Ghosts of Onyx.

I thought Linda was the sniper.

\"Mentioned\" isn\'t the right word, sorry. It seems all Nylund\'s books mention previous Spartans in some capacity. Kelly is the female Spartan most related to John. They have been on the same team since initial training. She is also the only female Spartan II that plays a central role in Ghosts of Onyx.

Umm... If I recall right in almost every battle scene (involving the spartan II\'s) it mentions Linda and her bamf sniping skills. But Kelly was part of Johns \"original squad\" when they were abducted as kids, which makes her the most likely candidit (s/p).

That\'s exactly what I said.

I was thinking Linda was a Spartan III, which is incorrect. My bust.

That doesn\'t change the fact I think it\'s Kelly. If you take into account all the books, Kelly is by far Nylund\'s most mentioned female Spartan, and the closest to John.

Oh I completely agree with you on it\'s most likely Kelly, if the boy is John, Kelly is probably the only female \"spartan\" I picture John laying down in a field looking at the stars with. At that point in there lives (I imagine only a few years after they were taken) Sam and Kelly were probably his only true friends (since they were in his squad) so John probably still had a pretty competitive attitude towards all the other \"spartans\" not in his squad, to the point where he wouldn\'t \"socialize\" with them (he didn\'t learn that winning isn\'t the only thing till alot later on If I recall right). So that would make Kelly the only logical choice in my mind.

Shyzza, If it makes you feel any better about this weekend, you\'re the only person I picture laying down in a field and watching stars with. :lol:

Oh, J/K BTW.

...sorry, Jeff.

No problem, Andy. I can totally see you wanting to lay Shyzza down in a grassy field. Makes perfect sense.

Who wouldn\'t? :) ...want to I mean.

Pretty good analysis over here:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/08/todays-hottest-game-video-halo-3-starry-night-ad-dissected/

We\'ve covered almost everything they talk about in this thread, and they agree with some of the theories. Interestingly, they hadn\'t thought of Shyzza\'s idea that since the dream is in John\'s head that the whole trailer takes place on earth. They mention grappling with the problem of John and Kelly being on Reach.

that pistol looks familiar.

Yeah, I know, right?